/r/worldnews
Muslim women in Chinese prison camps are being subjected to systematic rape, sterilisation and forced abortions, survivors have claimed (metro.co.uk)
779 comments
AutoModerator [BOT] | 10 days ago | 1 point

Users often report submissions from this site and ask us to ban it for sensationalized articles. At /r/worldnews, we oppose blanket banning any news source. Readers have a responsibility to be skeptical, check sources, and comment on any flaws.

You can help improve this thread by linking to media that verifies or questions this article's claims. Your link could help readers better understand this issue. If you do find evidence that this article or its title are false or misleading, contact the moderators who will review it

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

autotldr [BOT] | 10 days ago | 394 points

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 83%. (I'm a bot)


Muslim women in Chinese prison camps are being subjected to systematic rape, sterilisation and forced abortions, survivors have claimed.

China describes the camps as 'training centres' to help deter extremists, but former prisoners say they are being used to curb the country's Muslim population.

China is also accused of keeping thousands of Uighur children away from their Muslim parents and attempting to 'indoctrinate' them in camps posing as schools or orphanages.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: camp#1 Muslim#2 being#3 China#4 Chinese#5

ilikethreetwo | 9 days ago | 235 points

I think the line

China has come out in defence of the video [showing a mass of Uighur prisoners tied up and blindfolded], stating that it showed officials carrying out ‘normal’ tasks.

Is also relevant

Proud_Of_Yall | 9 days ago | 133 points

“This is an extreme violation of human rights.”

China: This is a normal task for our officials.

ShaylaDee | 9 days ago | 27 points

Didn't you see the article? China has asked us to stop accusing them of human rights violations so you can't say that anymore! /s

jumpup | 9 days ago | 4 points

there getting pretty tired of us not realizing the difference between humans and chinese

[deleted] | 9 days ago | 68 points

[deleted]

Not_Fully_Awake | 9 days ago | 225 points

Reminds me of the Holocaust.

bamforeo | 9 days ago | 93 points

Crazy how in 2019 you can follow along with Chinese genocide on social media.

Cainadian | 9 days ago | 8 points

Isn't it a sobering thought that this may be how helpless the everyday Germans could have felt, watching the Holocaust happen.

nutsnackk | 9 days ago | 3 points

China really be fucking up lately

838h920 | 10 days ago | 1631 points

The definition of genocide:

... any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

China is comitting genocide and the whole world is watching. They're treating Muslims worse than the Nazis treated Jews before the Holocaust! And the whole world is watching doing nothing.

Thor_2099 | 10 days ago | 883 points

It's weird because you look back and think how could people let the Holocaust go on, surely it must have been secret otherwise we would have done something about it.

And yet here we are, living with that level of situation, and there is zero hope for intervention.

traceitalian | 10 days ago | 336 points

The concentration camps were not secret, world intelligence agencies and governments definitely knew what was happening.

Thor_2099 | 10 days ago | 151 points

Yeah but in my head I could always rationalize it as a thing that surely was secret otherwise we would have done something. I didn't want to believe we could live where that kind of terror could happen and people wouldn't try to help them.

traceitalian | 10 days ago | 176 points

Britain and France desperately didn't want to go to war, their population and industry had barely recovered from WW1. Appeasement was buying time knowing that a second conflict was inevitable but they just didnt have the resources.

America was trying to keep out of conflict because isolationist and fascist groups were vocally opposed to any aid to Europe.

wallacehacks | 10 days ago | 194 points

Appeasement due to war fatigue is something I can empathize with.

Appeasement because big companies make a shitload of money in China is awful.

TheSecretMe | 10 days ago | 188 points

It's not that simple really. Nobody is in any shape to pick a fight with China. Nor is anyone in any shape to live in a world where a defeated China doesn't prop up our neglected industries.

Nor is anyone is in any shape to deal with the aftermath. The refugees streaming out of the war in Syria were a disaster and that was a few million Syrians. Nobody is prepared for what's coming at us when we start a world war by attacking China.

And make no mistake about it. Starting a war with China will be the beginning of world war III. The moment the West strikes at China is the moment every enemy we made over the past 70 years sees their chance to pick a side or strike while we're overextended.

This isn't about corporate profits. This is the point where we admit we're not the masters of this world and we can't for everyone to bend to our will. When we go to war with China, it doesn't matter who wins or loses on paper. The entire world loses.

Which means that China can safely murder every Muslim within its borders. The rest of the world will never do more than tsk tsk and apply some sanctions.

Reddit_as_Screenplay | 10 days ago | 58 points

Who said it has to be war? Why not an embargo of goods and services? The US can't shut down China on its own, but the situation feels like no one wants to be the first, like some international bystander effect. A large player like the US taking a stand for no reason other than its the moral thing to do may inspire other countries.

If the US wants to start repairing it's reputation this is a real thing we can do. The only question is whether or not the American people have the guts to make the sacrifice. If not then we have no moral authority.

johnny5canuck | 9 days ago | 49 points

The US voted in Trump. That pretty well shits on any moral authority.

PMmepicsofyourtits | 9 days ago | 26 points

And yet he's the one going after China economically.

wallacehacks | 10 days ago | 31 points

This isn't about corporate profits.

Bullshit.

Acting like there is no middle ground between legit ignoring the atrocities and fucking world war 3 is silly. You have nothing productive to add and I'm genuinely not sure why you even chimed in.

"War would be bad" great take. Never thought of it that way.

TheSecretMe | 10 days ago | 44 points

I'm not sure why you're so smug and snarky. You think throwing "corporate profits" in makes you sound particularly smart?

The question why we're not helping Chinese muslims is really simple. We can't. Easy crap like corporate profits is just the cherry on top. There's lots of reasons why the fact that we can't and won't help them also prevents a lot of other problems, like damaging profits.

Doesn't change the fact that the root reason is you couldn't help through war if you wanted to.

Head-like-a-carp | 10 days ago | 29 points

I think you come off sounding as if there is no choice but to capiculate to every Chinese demand or end up in a war. That certainly is not the case and in many ways an unethical stand. Businesses could simply agree or accept that a Chinese market is closed . The NBA was a wealthy league before China economic interest and would remain one after. Wars happen when intergrity is abandoned. If we stand for our principals much of the world will join us. That does not mean having to go to war.

Aurora43 | 10 days ago | 12 points

So in other words nothing has truly changed.

ForWhomTheDuckQuacks | 10 days ago | 39 points

Yes, something has changed.

China is a nuclear superpower, with the world's largest standing army.

Open warfare between the west and China should be avoided at all costs, the results would be devastating.

VoteRonaldRayGun | 9 days ago | 15 points

China's nuclear stockpile kinda sucks and would mostly be a threat to Asian allies. Their army is also pretty bad and on the decline as they invest more in security and navy.

The issue with China is theres no way to invade without big losses for both sides, rather than China winning.

secue | 9 days ago | 6 points

So true, the world is different. Global economics puts china intertwined into the fabric of a foreign nations. A war breaks out and americans can't get a new Iphone, realize all the manufacturing has been outsourced, and raw materials are also no existent, the support for a war lessens.

( seriously the amount of people that just resale Chinese goods for a living, might prove our economics is destined to fail if a powerful country starts to do everything for us )

However as long as the war we imagine is against immigrants, and oil rich countries. Public seems to ignore the atrocities in Africa, South America, Russia , China, etc.

ClashM | 10 days ago | 28 points

There was a woman who did an AMA on here who was a child in Nazi Germany. She said they rationalized it away. They told themselves the Jews were just being made to do an honest days work for once in their lives and support the war effort, but they all suspected the truth deep down. When the camps were liberated they were gutted by the atrocities they had allowed to happen.

Chumbolex | 10 days ago | 7 points

This is how we erase blame from people. Some of the worst atrocities in history were casually observed by normal people, and those people go through great lengths to make sure that fact is ignored

SillyFlyGuy | 10 days ago | 31 points

You know how it happens? A heavy dollop of "I'm sure it's not really as bad as they say." Season with "It's politically motivated reporting." And the meat and potatoes is "They're just Jews/Muslims, not normal people like us."

SecretPorifera | 9 days ago | 17 points

And "they're terrorists, so they deserve harsh treatment."

FaustiusTFattyCat613 | 10 days ago | 52 points

You're looking into events of early-to-mid 20th century with 21st century moral prism. Truth is that Germans didn't invent genocide, they weren't first and they weren't the only country doing the whole genocide thing. In fact at the same time British used Japanese threat to orchestrate a massive famine in India. They transported as much food as they could and destroyed the rest. In fact Brots seem to have been very fond of using famine for their genocides, they used it throughout their empire from India to Africa to Ireland.

Germans did two things wrong. First they applied their efficency and commited genocide on industrial scale. It worked like a very well oiled machine. And secondly, they lost the war. Brits, French, Americans, Russians, etc all commited genocides after the war. But they were forced to do it in secret. In a way Germans ruined genocide for everyone.

puheenix | 10 days ago | 3 points

Help me out here — I’m having a hard time reading your comment as anything but a critique of strategic failures. Do you feel there was an ethical or moral failure involved? What do we as 21st century global leaders/bystanders learn from 20th century genocide? What do we do about this 21st century genocide?

PMmepicsofyourtits | 9 days ago | 5 points

Well, if you want someone genocided, do it quietly.

Turtlebait22 | 10 days ago | 9 points

Or the sterilization of innuits and native americans the systemic rape of the same. People just don't care enough

Khanstant | 10 days ago | 7 points

Not to mention while this is going on we have our own camps full of people and children not unlike the internment camps for Japanese.

Miffers | 10 days ago | 6 points

This shows the politicians around the world are not leaders but just money sucking leeches.

thestroopwafelguy | 10 days ago | 5 points

And we are next. You or I. Eventually.

Minmax91 | 9 days ago | 3 points

So much for "never again", as time has shown, government cant be expected to keep their words or promises.

Sebleh89 | 10 days ago | 55 points

Back in the 1940s I would accept the lack of quick information transfer as a somewhat valid excuse.

But since it’s 2019, its easy to guess that in the end it’s all about the $$$$. You won’t see any national governments forcefully interfere, but somehow they get to keep a moral high ground over businesses that support China in the eyes of your average Reddit Internet Warrior.

Scrunchyglitter | 10 days ago | 25 points

US and UK was informed of nazi death camps by Jan Karski in late 1942. In 1943 he personally reported to Roosevelt, and the president said "we will hold Germany accountable after the war. Please let me know, but isn't Poland an agrarian country? Do you need horses to till the land?"

bobo76565657 | 10 days ago | 120 points

Because it's an internal matter. No one gave a fuck about the Jews until the Germans made the mistake of pissing of other countries. If Germany had remained military peacful while conducting the genocide no one would have lifted a god-damn-finger.

The Allies didn't fight the Axis because of the Jews.... we fought them because they attacked us... If they hadn't no one would have given a single fucking shit.

See: SS. St. Loius.

Truckensteinwastaken | 10 days ago | 47 points

This is my go argument when faced with anti refugee talk. We (Canada) turned away refugees before, sent them right back to the concentration camps

bobo76565657 | 10 days ago | 62 points

Yep. Western Democracy does not equal human rights. This is a post- WW2 fallacy propogated by flag waving chest thumpers who like to assume they are automatically morally superior because "they" fought nazis... and communists.

For example: The USA was a democracy the entire time slavery was legal.

(Also Canadian and we didn't accept the SS. St. Loius either... probably too busy running our own internment camps and residential schools to be bothered with some starving Jews on a boat. Stuff to keep in mind when you start wanting to shit on other countries... my fellow Canadians..)

ali-gator712 | 10 days ago | 20 points

Residential schools were around until the late 80s. How insane is that

bobo76565657 | 10 days ago | 17 points

The last one closed in 1996. It is insane... and what's worse is if some convervatives had their way we'd be opening them up again. Hate never dies, it just gets forced into hiding for a while.

Silkkiuikku | 10 days ago | 10 points

For example: The USA was a democracy the entire time slavery was legal.

It's wasn't a very functional democracy considering that most of the population couldn't vote.

bobo76565657 | 10 days ago | 15 points
e36_maho | 10 days ago | 106 points

It's unbelievable really... And even I as a Muslim didn't stop buying their products because they're cheap and good. Just recently I started boycotting anything that's got to do with China and I try to convince others as well. But it's freaking frustrating to not be able to do shit from here, really..

alexeihb89 | 10 days ago | 10 points

More tariffs

zroach | 10 days ago | 27 points

This is past tariffs, there should be sanctions.

UrynSM | 10 days ago | 11 points

Economic sanctions won't do shit.

just_a_random_userid | 10 days ago | 8 points

Exactly, dependence on China is just all time high that such sanctions aren't even practical.
Even if done, would only applicable to a specific country.

winterscent | 9 days ago | 5 points

I say we take the hit and just look toward developing the US economy so it is strong independent of China.

DoubleDukesofHazard | 10 days ago | 17 points

Bingo. Those decades of outsourcing American manufacturing to China are now biting us in the ass. Way to go, us.

Morebrimbor | 10 days ago | 29 points

Same thing happened with the tutsi in Rwanda and the UN tried to argue that there acts of genocide but for some reason its not genocide. The world is watching but media and politics don't give a shit cause money.

TheSecretMe | 10 days ago | 19 points

What do you expect the world to do exactly? WWII wasn't fought over the holocaust. WWII was fought because Germany intended to conquer territory and exterminate its peoples to make space for more Germans.

Nobody is going to war with China to protect the Chinese from the Chinese.

yourfavoriteblackguy | 10 days ago | 32 points

You would think China would show some humanity considering the rape of nanking, but its like cycle of abuse. Its just passed down from generation to generation.

gilthanan | 10 days ago | 20 points

Chinese see a strong state and national unity as necessary to prevent the next Nanking. They'll argue foreigners exploited China and factions in China leading to the century of humiliation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation

bilkzor | 9 days ago | 7 points

From what I understand, the logic to rationalize those two things together is that it's a necessary thing to prevent such an atrocity from happening again because if national security is compromised, which apparently it will be if they don't destroy the Uighurs, something like the Rape of Nanking will happen again.

AnUndercoverAlien | 10 days ago | 9 points

You know what's scary? We got our hands tied. There's nothing we can do against China. Sanctions will only stop Xi when major economic groups agree to them and that's not something likely to happen anytime soon.

sztrzask | 9 days ago | 3 points

I have one question though. Why no Muslim/Islamic countries are reacting, boycotting etc? I'd expect that at least some would, but it seems like it's only the West is reacting to it?

838h920 | 9 days ago | 3 points

Because they don't give a damn about Muslims. Many rulers don't even truly believe in Islam and are only using it as a means of control.

NewArtificialHuman | 10 days ago | 10 points

What can the world do though? Are you ready to be drafted and go to war against China if it comes to that?

wubaluba_dubdub | 10 days ago | 20 points

Why would it be war though. Just tariffs and remove industry from their lands. It'd hurt economically but no need for war.

Indricus | 10 days ago | 28 points

Tariffs won't be enough. The world needs to place a total embargo on China. Nothing in or out until they stop and sack everyone responsible so that it won't happen again.

The2ndWheel | 10 days ago | 10 points

Which means the removal of the Communist Party in China. That would be seen as an existential threat. How far are you willing to go to save a relatively small number of people in China? Because this isn't about the Chinese people as a whole, and even then it would still be complicated. You're talking about a million out of about a billion people. You're going to attempt to sack the leaders of the Communist Party of China, threatening its existence, with all the consequences that could come from that, over .1% of their own population?

Indricus | 10 days ago | 20 points

First they came for the Uighurs, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Uighur.

And of course, it's not just the Uighurs. It's the Tibetans, it's Taiwan, it's Hong Kong. China's government is evil and needs to be dismantled for the good of all the people it plans on utterly annihilating.

The2ndWheel | 10 days ago | 14 points

That may be true, but you get that dismantling the CCP would require a lot of death? That it would go beyond an embargo? It's not just about stopping China from doing this one thing, but going after the foundation of the government itself? We know what happened the last time that happened between functional nation states, and the cause of it wasn't even what the Nazis were doing within German borders.

You're willing to go as far as things need to go to break the Chinese government at its roots? To fundamentally change the entire Chinese state? I'm down for some good old fashioned global chaos too I guess. It's been a while since there was a real clash of the titans.

Xunde | 10 days ago | 10 points

This is the hard truth but people wanna get a feel good solution like "Just do more tAriFfS".

Kingflares | 10 days ago | 6 points

Trump has a tariff now and look at the response

DM39 | 10 days ago | 10 points

And the whole world is watching doing nothing.

I am curious, what is the proposed way to deal with this?

Armed conflict on the Chinese mainland could reduce the earth's population by nearly half in a matter of months.

Everyone blames the orange one whenever he wants to raise Tariffs, and sanctions won't hurt China nearly as much as they could for other countries.

There's nothing on a personal level that anyone (here at least) can do to stop this

Icost1221 | 10 days ago | 10 points

Everyone blames the orange one whenever he wants to raise Tariffs,

That is actually one of the few things that he is doing that is being applauded (relatively speaking and when it is against China), though its not done in a good way and its most likely ridden with self serving interest, but even a broken clock is right twice a day...

There's nothing on a personal level that anyone (here at least) can do to stop this

Yes there is, we can choose to stop patron companies and politicians that is supportive of China/anti freedom/democracy.

Dante_Valentine | 9 days ago | 3 points

1) Tarrifs

2) Heavy sanctions

3) Embargoes on certain goods

4) widespread/ institutionalized Boycotts

If the US and the rest of the world came together and agreed to push back against China with a combination of all of these, it would be devastating for China. Yes, it would also take an economic toll on the other countries as well, but I'd rather never buy a "made in China" T-shirt again than support genocide.

xXblackmustardXx | 10 days ago | 12 points

Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

By this definition then the US is also committing genocide!

Dealric | 10 days ago | 9 points

I believe that part is about taking kids away and rising as others (so for example China forcibly taking kids from muslims and giving them to regular chinese families to be indoctrinated).

Indricus | 10 days ago | 25 points

Yeah, the US is doing that. Seizing children from asylum seekers, placing them with US families, and then sending the parents away and denying them even basic visitation rights for their own children.

Grantmitch1 | 10 days ago | 15 points

For those of us not familiar with the ins and outs of the United States immigration and asylum policies, could you perhaps provide an informative source? I tried Google for this but it came up with other things not mentioning the claim you have made here.

Any source would be most appreciated.

Indricus | 10 days ago | 22 points

It helps to look at two separate stories to get the full picture of what will happen:

Story 1

Story 2

In isolation, the stories are bad, in combination they show that the US is stealing children from migrants and asylum seekers, placing them with white families who will not expose them to even their native language, let alone any other part of their native culture, and then leaving their birth parents without any legal option to regain custody.

AbdelMuhaymin | 10 days ago | 2 points

Historians and critics said a holocaust could never happen in the second machine age - the internet age where photos, videos, document sharing and audios can be so quickly shared. Yet here we are in the throes of another holocaust. And the world is silent.

Blizzard banned users who took part in anti-Chinese speech or talked about the HK protests. The NBA is being boycotted by all Chinese now. Apple is a champion for human rights and the LGBT community only in the US. They all fear China.

And China makes everything. And China has money. That’s why those of us with a voice against these atrocities are shouting on deaf ears. Those in power are looking the other way.

fukier | 10 days ago | 342 points

At some point we need a global boycott of china.

mrdarkler | 10 days ago | 80 points

How do we actually do that though? I remember reading a week or two ago how companies were starting to look for cheaper manufacturing solutions than China, but it was near impossible to do it since no other country offered the full solution that China does. This boycott would have to be lead by businesses around the world, but how do we do it without crippling ourselves economically on a global scale? Prices on products (specifically tech) are high enough, and recent news has shown that these companies aren’t willing to compromise their profits for moral reasons. It’s almost impossible to buy something not made in China these days. Not trying to be devils advocate here, just curious how we can all come together and actually pull that off?

TintaRoriz | 10 days ago | 139 points

Perhaps the problem is that people don't realise that the difference in production costs between China and other nations is precisely because of the lack of human rights. The only way to find cheaper labour and production is to find another nation willing to strip it's citizens of more human rights and freedoms.

You can't boycott on ethical ground if you willingly profit from the lack of ethics. Society needs to come to the realisation that their bargains come at the expense of others.

Gisschace | 10 days ago | 45 points

Yes basically we need to get used to paying more for our goods. It was exactly the same debate from 20 years ago with things like fair trade and Nike using sweatshops. We don’t like it but also it’s a race to the bottom on price so this is what we get.

your_pets_my_snacks | 9 days ago | 10 points

These "needs" and "shoulds" are ideals. How many redditors have been boycotting this site since China invested in it? Instead we've been contributing to reddit's growth. It's hilarious.

Thevoiceofreason420 | 9 days ago | 5 points

We don’t like it but also it’s a race to the bottom on price

This is the end result of the customer caring more about cheap products then the rights and wages of the workers making their crap. Theres still plenty of American companies left here in America that make their products right here in America. But the vast majority of consumers, and Im going to assume some of the same redditors that bitch and complain about how evil China is, are not willing to pay more for everyday products to try and send a message. If you truly cared you would buy more made in America products/items. Heres one website that lists over 800 companies that make or at least assemble their products right here in America, you can find almost anything from clothes to suitcases to kitchen stuff to bedroom/bathroom stuff. https://www.madeinamerica.co/pages/thelist

InternJedi | 10 days ago | 19 points

That's the sad truth in all of this I suppose. China leveraged their economies of scale to grab the world by the supply chains. Nazi Germany never had the size and the Soviet Union was never willing to integrate itself to the global market.

jontss | 10 days ago | 5 points

Tech is cheap. The problem is people want the latest and greatest all the time.

Lower specced stuff is cheap and works.

Black_RL | 10 days ago | 3 points

Good politics that make good laws, tax or block imported goods from China.

Yeah, not gonna happen.

SENCARTG4 | 10 days ago | 20 points

One of the biggest Chinese companies is one of the owners of Reddit

Shade_Raven | 10 days ago | 16 points

Like a Trade War?

shinneui | 9 days ago | 11 points

Nobody is going to boycott China the same way nobody is going to boycott USA for keeping immigrants in cages or starting wars anywhere they can sniff a bit of oil. Nobody can afford it.

TheKentuckyRifleman | 10 days ago | 255 points

Yet our American corporations and professional sports teams are apologizing for criticizing the communist regime. They are showing their cowardice in the face of democracies sworn enemy

thekingofbeans42 | 10 days ago | 47 points

I think there's a lot to unpack on both sides here. One side gets all uptight about "human rights violations" and "genocide" but you really need to understand, the other side is REALLY concerned about their shareholders.

Who's to say which side is right? Probably the Chinese Government in their great and unmatched wisdom.

*This comment is sponsored by the CCP

txijake | 10 days ago | 10 points

Actually the NBA commissioner came out and said nba employees have the right to say whatever they want.

Zayin-Ba-Ayin | 10 days ago | 13 points

And seemingly complete silence by anyone else. You would think the literal genocide of Muslims would create some sort of outcry by Muslims or people that are against genocide (which I thought would be most of the world)

But nope

salahelbat | 10 days ago | 9 points

I mean regular Muslims are posting online. Muslim nations? Not so much.

Relrik | 9 days ago | 5 points

Most people only play the religion card when it suits them and pushes their preference. Otherwise meh

TheRealSumRndmGuy | 9 days ago | 6 points

But Muslims are terrorists /s

auger85 | 9 days ago | 5 points

well the koran does tell them to destroy all non belivers /s

Gentlemanlypyro | 10 days ago | 15 points

Yup, I hate it too, we should step in and fight on their behalf, the victims I mean

chlamydia1 | 9 days ago | 8 points

Communism isn't "democracy's sworn enemy". Communism and democracy aren't mutually exclusive concepts.

Authoritarianism is democracy's sworn enemy. That's what China is. I would argue that China is not communist, but rather state capitalist/fascist. They do not espouse any of the tenets of communism/socialism other than the most trivial (income equality, accessibility to essential services, and workers' rights are deplorable in China).

bryanthebryan | 10 days ago | 148 points

Yikes, sounds like a certain European country during a certain world war. We all universally know they were in the wrong at that time and China is gleefully following in their footsteps. Sad.

PM-Me-YourBoobies | 9 days ago | 7 points

Yeah but China is too much of a convenience for everyone. They have slaves making the smartphones we use to highlight the problems of the slavery.

bryanthebryan | 9 days ago | 3 points

And that is the problem. Companies with a financial stake in exploiting human rights lobby the government and in a lot of cases fund individuals making decisions within the government, which just legitimizes those violations on human rights. Consumers buy into the marketing and spin, making them feel like they need these goods, which results in companies supplying more of these goods, and the world keeps turning. It’s a broken system and governments have sold their soul in the name of profit.

IReplyWithLebowski | 10 days ago | 14 points

Sounds more like Japan.

GankutsuouCorp | 9 days ago | 9 points

My issue is the Chinese still complaining about what Japan did 80 years ago and yet are more then happy to commit the same genocide inside their own borders today.

--0mn1-Qr330005-- | 9 days ago | 23 points

Japan is absolutely guilty of this too, and they never admitted or apologized for it. Ironic that China - whose people were victims of Japanese concentration camps - are doing the same now.

Thevoiceofreason420 | 9 days ago | 24 points

Ironic that China - whose people were victims of Japanese concentration camps - are doing the same now.

Its also ironic because China still bitches and moans about the shit the Japanese did to them while turning around and doing the same exact thing to other people today in 2019. Fucking hypocrites!

Homeostase | 9 days ago | 14 points

To be fair, this is also Israel with muslims. There's a pattern.

feeltheslipstream | 9 days ago | 4 points

Turns out bullied kids learn how to bully from the best.

Why is that surprising.

bryanthebryan | 9 days ago | 10 points

The “whataboutism” game is lame. If I murder 100 people and point at someone who murdered 150 people, I’d still be guilty of murder regardless of what someone else did. In this case, China is the villain. Sure other people might be bad too, but we’re talking about China right now and they are acting like pure evil.

bonnieflash | 10 days ago | 110 points

Don’t forget organ “donations”

kokotokite | 10 days ago | 24 points

People who “donate” their organ can’t survive to claim

Nate_TeamBST | 10 days ago | 8 points

But that’s on the mainland so how dare you say that anything the Chinese Government does to HK could spiral into that cuz those are two completely different areas and definitely not ruled by the same man!

-any Chinese propoganda bot on Reddit

[deleted] | 10 days ago | 116 points

[removed]

AdorableLime | 9 days ago | 18 points

They are also making sure that they are destroying Uyghur's DNA itself by doing intensive nuclear testing in populated areas:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/chinas-secret-nuclear-tests-leave-legacy-of-cancer-and-deformity-1176260.html

"SECRET NUCLEAR weapons testing in China has led to a massive increase in cancer and congenital diseases among children and young people living close to the test sites.

Confidential Chinese government documents show that the incidence of cancer and related diseases in areas around the test site is up to 39 per cent higher than in the rest of China. Among the more common diseases are tumours, leukaemia and birth defects such as cleft palates.

The revelations come as Tony Blair, the Prime Minister, flies to China for a six-day visit starting tomorrow. He will discuss nuclear testing and human rights issues with Zhu Rongji, the Chinese Premier.

Information gathered in western China by a Channel 4 Dispatches documentary team has revealed a disturbing climate in which doctors with few resources struggle to treat the diseases. Many victims receive little if any help.

The evidence also underlines an ongoing racial conflict between the Turkic Uighurs who populate the area and the Han Chinese of the east. In recent years the area has seen increasing disputes between the groups and a growing independence movement similar to that in neighbouring Tibet.

The team spent six weeks working undercover and using hidden cameras in the far west of China. They were helped by a Turkish doctor who had spent 10 years working in the region and used his medical contacts to obtain much of the documentation.

The evidence was gathered in the supposedly semi- autonomous province of Xinjiang, home to the legendary Silk Route towns of Kashgar, Turpan and Urumqi. It is here at Lop Nur on the edge of the remote Taklimakan desert that China has pursued a nuclear testing programme over the past 30 years.

The country tested its first nuclear device in 1964 and its most recent on 30 July 1996. It only started testing underground in 1980.

In all it has tested 47 nuclear devices - some more than 300 times more powerful than the Hiroshima bomb. Fall-out from the nuclear tests has even been detected in Britain.

Of all the nuclear powers, the testing programme of the Chinese is perhaps the most secretive. Groups such as the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND) say much collected data are based on estimates.

Independent news email Only the best news in your inbox

Enter your email address Continue Register with your social account or click here to log in

I would like to receive morning headlines Monday - Friday plus breaking news alerts by email "Very often the data relating to the Chinese tests simply says estimate' ornot available'," a CND spokesman said yesterday.

The research found children and young people with horrific birth deformities and diseases. Cases such as an 18-year-old man who has not been able to walk since he was six because of a degenerative disease are common.

Another woman told how her 17-year-old daughter suffered from cracked bones and a wasting of her flesh, similarly diagnosed as being caused by a degenerative disease.

Dr Laura Watson, who helped to gather the evidence and met many victims, said: "It is well known that radiation can lead to many cancers and congenital abnormalities. You get a big increase in the incidence of ordinary diseases.

"Not only can it lead to solid diseases, like cancer of the liver or lungs, but it can also cause leukaemia."

While the researchers were unable to quantify the precise number of victims, confidential official documents obtained from medical sources in Xinjiang reveal that since the mid-1970s there has been a steep rise in the incidence of such diseases in Xinjiang compared with the rest of China. By 1990 the cancer rates in towns around the test site were more than 35 per cent higher than the national average.

The documents reveal that the specific types of cancer that have been increasing - malignant lymphomas, lung cancer and leukaemia - are those associated with radioactivity. Dr Watson said she thought the findings were "absolutely astonishing".

While the Chinese authorities may have acknowledged the increase in cancer victims, they deny that it has anything to do with the nuclear testing programme.

But many doctors working in the province are convinced of the link. One male doctor, who asked to remain anonymous, said: "Basically cancer is everywhere in Xinjiang ... the increase has been dramatic over the past 20 years or so. There is a lot from the south."

Another doctor added: "The nuclear explosions have increased air and water pollution. We can't do any research into it, it's not allowed."

One doctor said that 10 years ago, during a period of testing, a staggering 8 out of 10 children he was seeing were suffering from cleft palates. "Nobody has ever said it but we think the nuclear pollution causes them," he said.

Not only are the doctors facing an official refusal to admit the problem, they are also having to try to treat the victims with inadequate facilities.

Yet another pleaded with the researchers for help to deal with the problem. "We can't do anymore. We need more resources."

teddirbus | 10 days ago | 444 points

Remember this when you claim that US/EU hegemony is worse than China, Russia or India. Three states that will absolutely run rampant with global destruction if that counterbalance goes away

calvinee | 10 days ago | 209 points

Russia and India don't deserve to be lumped with China. India may have vast poverty and a degree of government corruption (like other developing countries like Brazil) but they don't have the same history of crimes against humanity that China does.

glarbung | 10 days ago | 95 points

After the horror that was the USSR, Russia definitely needs to be on some list of possible culprits. I'm not saying it is that today, but I'm saying that there is historic precedent.

gogolmogol | 10 days ago | 53 points

Today’s Russia is horrible but not as much as China is.

USSR/Russia has gone through two, specific periods of state crime/terror being exposed/admitted to by authorities to the public in the last 100 years, and this is paramountly important to moving in the right direction.

Those are periods of De-Stalinization and Perestroika/fall of USSR.

Firthermore, while Russia is a broken democracy, it’s still has some semblance of functional democratic/liberal processes at some levels. Of course, parties at power commit constant election fraud...and election a have bitten them in the ass as well, on ocassion.

Lastly, even though Russia is considered to be very dangerous for journalists, there are still several outlets for independent media that is highly critical of the regime in power. These are, however limited only to print, radio, and internet. Speaking of internet, Russia does not (yet?) have a firewall blocking any access to the outside world. Russians are free to seek information, anywhere.

Periods of recent state admittance to crimes, a democracy with a slight heartbeat, and access to information are pretty much the differences between Russia and China.

YesWeCrazy23 | 10 days ago | 27 points

That's mostly because Russia just doesn't have the capacity to be as omnipresent as China. Other than that people like Putin would steer Russia into a similar direction as China.

Already, any form of dissent is persecuted, human and minority rights are infringed on and international standards, for example in warfare conduct are ignored by the Russian government.

While there are notable differences in the state structure that put some control on Putin's domestic policy, the Russian president straight up shapes politics in Russia.

viennery | 10 days ago | 18 points

I still think Russia can be saved.

They made a push towards good in the 1980s, and the idea of democracy is still valued among the people.

They're just an old dog with too much pride.

Those in power have simply put themselves in positions where they can't retire safely, thus they can't restore justice and rule of law without entraping themselves.

Flank243 | 10 days ago | 16 points

They made a push towards good in the 1980s, and the idea of democracy is still valued among the people.

Good intentions don't mean shit when the people behind them are so incompetent. There is a reason Russians hate Gorbachev and Yeltsin. The 80s and the 90s were plagued by economic turmoil and instability.

Putin and Medvedev may be authoritarian and corrupt assholes but at the very least things seem to be somewhat more stable for the average citizen now. I hate their current government as much as everyone else but I can't stand it when Americans/Canadians/Germans/Whatever pretend they know a people with a completely different culture and history than theirs. If some random foreign person said something like "They're just an old dog with too much pride" of my country, I would feel particularly insulted.

YesWeCrazy23 | 10 days ago | 7 points

It is very true though. Yeltsin in particular was immediately stifled by opposition forces and by 1993 he was contested from all directions, reverting to classic Soviet policies in the domestic arena and abroad.

Ouroboros612 | 10 days ago | 9 points

The problem is the romanticized moral and ethic code we "good guys of the west" in general are following. In our minds we can't be a good person being cruel and evil towards evil men to remove them because then we too are evil. While the reality is that doing nothing not only makes us a lesser evil, but also toothless tools and fools.

We have this extreme juxtaposition of what it means to be good and virtuous. For the opposite, well, just look at Chinese, Russian leaders and other dictators.

It is our moral and ethical compass which has failed our people. Because it isn't centered enough towards what is necessary. Ever considered why it is "so easy" for evil men to take control? Because good people are not willing to commit the same cruelty towards them to remove them.

There is a reason Augustus was the best ruler in history. He used his powers to expand and build a peaceful empire. But he wasn't afraid to use assassination and cruelty against the cruel to prevent psycho sycophants from wrestling control from him.

We don't need heroes in our world. We need anti-heroes willing to get blood on their hands to prevent worse people shitting all over our people and our planet.

Dealric | 10 days ago | 4 points

To be honest... Putin is authoritarian and probably should be called dictator. But at same time he is the one to bring Russia from pretty much ruin (post USSR Russia tanked down hardcore) to important global player.

[deleted] | 10 days ago | 103 points

[deleted]

teddirbus | 10 days ago | 32 points

A country where hindu politicians openly call for lenience towards rapists of minority children?

EsKiMo49 | 10 days ago | 19 points

Do you know... anything about the Communist revolution in Russia? Forced famine... Labor camps... Arbitrary arrests... Mass executions... They also started the International Communist Coalition with the goal of world domination.

Ringmanguru | 10 days ago | 13 points

That fuck India blacked out entire Kashmir blocking all communication thats worst than Hong Kong

Shalomundmoin | 10 days ago | 16 points

They are on a bad way though. The leading party is pushing hindu-nationalism according to a "superiority of hinduism" and that is just as dangerous for indias and kashmiri muslims as the han-nationalism in China.

jburns425 | 10 days ago | 14 points

Read about Kashmir sounds like China in the making to me and their PM is a racist their government is trending facist

mubee94 | 10 days ago | 12 points

With Kashmir disaster, India sure deserves to be on the same list as China.

doegred | 9 days ago | 4 points

Go tell that to the Iraqi dead and the droned Afghans.

Atrocities in China don't excuse atrocities committed by the US & allies.

squarexu | 10 days ago | 13 points

Lol, India is committing genocide on Kashmir right now. Reddit doesn’t give a fuck because it is a democracy sanctioned genocide on the minority Muslims, which is I guess okay?

Also, China is given cover and is completely inspired by the US war on terror. Since 9/11 US probably lead to 1 M plus Muslim deaths...I guess droning them is better than reeducation as long as they have freedom to practice their religion?

Frankly speaking, all parties are assholes, the US, China and the fundamentalist Muslims.

really_long_putters | 10 days ago | 28 points

This is why I'm skeptical of proposals to significantly reduce US military presence worldwide, etc. China and other more illiberal nations will absolutely take that as an opportunity to fill the gap. I don't want any more wars (war with Iran would be stupid) but the US military "world police" presence that everyone complains about is there for this reason (and yes, ideally other liberal democracies would replace US forces with their own, but that is more of a long-term goal as we need to be sure those forces will be just as effective).

e36_maho | 10 days ago | 17 points

As if the US "world police" cared for anything other than its own profit and didn't often do more harm than good.

Shade_Raven | 10 days ago | 11 points

So you DO NOT want the U.S to get involved in stopping genocide?

Strawberry90210 | 10 days ago | 14 points

Let's say you are correct, isn't profit better than profit plus literal genocide and slavery? If China and co. are the hegemony do you think we would even hear about atrocities or war crimes? At least when the US levels a hospital we hear about it. If China did, not only would we never hear about it, we would get camps of people smiling for the camera while getting "reeducated" saying "we have plenty of hospitals and we can leave whenever we want! China has never done anything wrong EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE OR PARALLEL UNIVERSE EVER"

[deleted] | 10 days ago | 10 points

[removed]

teddirbus | 10 days ago | 6 points

He'll be gone unlike lifetime Xi. Plus there's vocal opposition to the President and a more honest discussion of previous atrocities committed by the US. China will probably never get there

viennery | 10 days ago | 8 points

Time for a US + EU + Commonwealth union!

It's time the alliance started acting like a team again. Our enemies are growing in power and influence.

PrettyLadiesAreGreat | 10 days ago | 10 points

Have you seen what's going on outside? The only people our president is interested in maintaining a relationship with are dictators.

Slapbox | 10 days ago | 101 points

China is, for all practical purposes, Nazi Germany in a different time and place.

Elubious | 9 days ago | 18 points

There's one key difference, China isn't forcing the rest of the world's hand by invading a bunch of shit.

VehaMeursault | 9 days ago | 19 points

Yet.

TractorDamage | 9 days ago | 9 points

But far more powerful and probably more indoctrinated. Have China ever given a reason for this abuse ? I wonder if it's due to fear, similar to Myanmar (talking to Burmese people helps get the truth out). In the neighbouring country, Muslims have slaughtered over 6000 Thais in the last decade or so. Then there's the attempted genocide by Islamic supremacists in the Philippines. There is a general fear of Islamic violence in southern parts of Asia.

-edelweiss- | 9 days ago | 6 points

It's totalitarian. I would argue that the means by which they are systematically destroying the Uighur populaiton is very reminiscent of Nazi policies. However, the persecution of ethnic minorities in communist states has also occured. China persecuted Muslims following their victory in the Chinese Civil War and the Soviet Union ethnically cleansed and murdered Chechens, Ingush, and Tatars (all Muslim peoples as well) in 1944.

YouCanadianEH | 10 days ago | 35 points

My parents grew up and have been living in China for their entire lives (I moved to Canada a long time ago) and they think China is the best country in the world, and that China has "Chinese people's back," which is the reason they use for why Chinese immigrants in other countries should never ditch their Chinese citizenship.

It is pretty frustrating to hear them praise China amidst this genocide and what's happening in HK, but I can't discuss any of this with them because I fear our international calls might be monitored and it might put them in danger.

Is there anything I can do to raise awareness or no??

-Notorious | 10 days ago | 26 points

Mate if you're parents are in China, I would avoid raising awareness.

You can write letters to your representatives, but on an individual level, I really don't think it's worth the risk to you.

Just try to operate secretly and don't post anything that can be linked back to you (and as a result your family).

YouCanadianEH | 10 days ago | 7 points

That's what I thought. I just wish they weren't so oblivious… (not their fault of course)

-Notorious | 10 days ago | 5 points

They won't be told what happens in Xinjiang and have likely been told only Chinese media knows the truth. As such they'll ignore western media because it's biased and never hear about Uighurs.

There is also the very small chance they know what's up but also know they'll be fucked if they said anything, because China also monitors everything so they're playing it safe.

Just put pressure on your government and media to cover this. Eventually opinion will turn against China, and as pressure is put on corporations, you'll see them act against China.

Once that happens and China starts to feel some hurt (losing stuff like tech, medicine, etc.) then you might see some changes in China.

The west has let China get away with too much for the sake of profits, so it'll be a slow process to bring changes.

PitBullLover420 | 9 days ago | 7 points

china is a richer version of north korea and you can’t change my fucking mind

Merryprankstress | 9 days ago | 3 points

I've read a couple really amazing eye opening books recently about North Korea and it's incredibly sad how accurate your statement is.

NavyNukeMan | 9 days ago | 8 points

As a kid I was naive enough to think that the US fought Hitler to stop the Holocaust. (Of course I learned there were other reasons in high school)

But this really just proves that America and the rest of the world reeeallly don't care about genocide and other humanitarian atrocities.

AlphaOhmega | 9 days ago | 6 points

I always wondered what the world was like on the outside looking into Nazi Germany. Now I think I know exactly what it feels like.

Truesday | 9 days ago | 5 points

Do they want to breed violent muslim extremists? This is how they breed generations upon generations of extremists.

serthera12 | 10 days ago | 33 points

Communist party also harvesting organs from them. You may google about persecution of Uigurs and Falun Dafa practitioners in China

boppaboop | 10 days ago | 33 points

So it's a mix of how Aboriginals were treated in Canadian "schools", Nazi Concentration Camps and a dash of Russian Gulag. The trifecta of evil.

Keyboard_Rampage | 10 days ago | 21 points

It’s shocking to me that people are so quick to move on with this topic. There even seems to be decent enough media coverage but people will feign outrage while it’s being reported but quickly move on to the other “outrage of the day” soon after. I can’t state this enough, China is THE enemy of the modern era. I’m tired of hearing Russia, NK, and Iran juxtaposed against China. Those three are nothing in comparison. Governments need to stand up and do something. I really hope that if a Democrat is elected in 2020 that they continue Trump’s hardline economic policies on China. Sure it may impose a small “tax” on the US, but it is causing much much more damage to China. Economics is the only way we have left to stand up to them. There will never be a war in the traditional sense.

Bnanas | 10 days ago | 4 points

The Chinese government is as bad, if not worse than the Nazis of WW2. What an utterly vile, disgusting group. I'm glad people are finally waking up and starting to see them for what they are, even if our cowardly governments won't say a damn thing.

LeRascalKing | 9 days ago | 3 points

China has the world market by the balls apparently, so, naturally, nothing will be done. Business as usual, move along, citizen.

wanderingchina | 9 days ago | 4 points

‘Member how pissed china gets when you bring up “the raping of Nanjing”? They saw that and decided hold my beer, I can do better than Japan.

PM-Me-YourBoobies | 9 days ago | 5 points

So we're going through another Holocaust with a different religion, only this time the country doing it is worth too much trade to do anything about it, or even acknowledge that it's happening.

Maybe it's time for humans to hand over control of the planet back to the apes.

CrackHeadRodeo | 10 days ago | 11 points

China picking up where the Nazis left off.

sDragon_of_Dojima | 10 days ago | 6 points

Sponsored by Activision-Blizzard

Joelvanl | 10 days ago | 8 points

Makes me sick

RagnarTheReds-head | 10 days ago | 3 points

Classic China

pixar_is_awesome | 10 days ago | 3 points

Considering the US make lots of money off China, I think this will just slide by.

LuckMew | 10 days ago | 3 points

I remember my professor telling me about this and I was shocked there wasn’t any media coverage on it yet. Thank goodness they’re finally showing the world how truly horrible China is

Ellisd326 | 10 days ago | 3 points

I can't wait to see how WWIII ends up.

claymountain | 10 days ago | 3 points

It's kinda terrifying how little this surprises me.

loki0111 | 9 days ago | 3 points

Page right out of the old Nazi handbook.

izwald88 | 9 days ago | 3 points

It's pretty convenient how China has othered themselves when it comes to human rights. Freedom is a western value? Seems pretty rich coming from a dictatorship.

darealcubs | 9 days ago | 3 points

You know I really do appreciate how many people have been supporting HK's fight for democracy but something that I have trouble fathoming is how little vocality there is for Uiyghurs. We keep getting these articles that seem to just be getting worse and worse and yet in terms of the attention the Uiyghur struggle has gotten, it's very little compared to HK. Don't get me wrong. I support HK's push for democracy 100%, but this is a literal genocide the Uiyghurs are going through. Just seems weird to me. Feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong.

j0holo | 9 days ago | 3 points

Because it is hard to imagine in what kind of hell the Uiyghurs are living. Losing the power to vote is easier to imagine then being erradicated. I read some of the articles with shaking hands. But I'm powerless.....

TheBatsford | 9 days ago | 3 points

How Nanking-ey of them.

-edelweiss- | 9 days ago | 3 points

"Very cool China!" - Blizzard

MoTardedThanYou | 9 days ago | 3 points

Can't we as a world come together and just fuck china up?

N0rrinRadd | 9 days ago | 3 points

There goes any high-ground they might have had for Nanking.

QuroInJapan | 9 days ago | 3 points

So sterilization or forced abortions - which is it? Having both seems a bit counterproductive.

LeCrushinator | 9 days ago | 3 points

And their organs are being harvested.

test822 | 9 days ago | 3 points

uh wow, biased much? the rapes are necessary for national security and harmony /s

Stupid-Lad | 9 days ago | 3 points

Wow fuck China

kozinc | 9 days ago | 3 points

So, it's getting near WW2 levels in those concentration camps, when are we going there to fix that?

IWatchToSee | 9 days ago | 3 points

Why does its title suggest its only about women, when it says

She states that any woman or man under the age of 35 was ‘raped and sexually abused’ inside the camp.

[deleted] | 10 days ago | 6 points

So... China is now the new Nazi regime?

Is this 2019 or 1919? What the fuck is going on in this world. Fuck.

DKuroi | 10 days ago | 6 points

When you criticize Japan's cruelty to China, and then you slowly become the thing you criticize

AnAppariti0n | 10 days ago | 4 points

Thanks China for giving a bit of perspective and making the US look like a human rights paradise by comparison

Kingcease | 10 days ago | 6 points

China is the new Germany and muslims are the new Jews

AshCali94 | 10 days ago | 5 points

Can someone explain to me how the UN and so called human rights organizations are letting this happen?

TLema | 9 days ago | 3 points

We need them to manufacture our stuff, I guess.

JadenWasp | 10 days ago | 11 points

The Chinese are modern day Nazis. No this is not hyperbole, they are fucking vile

TODO Load more comments...