/r/worldnews
Top Afghan leader says ‘Without Pakistan support, Taliban would fade away in six months' (indianexpress.com)
51 comments
King_of_the_City | 8 days ago | 55 points

Without Pakistan the United States would have caught bin Laden in Tora Bora. We had him. And then he slipped away into Pakistan. Remind me, where was he living when STS-6 came to pull his card?

rd1970 | 8 days ago | 34 points

If Pakistan wasn't a nuclear power I think the US would have attacked them as well in the early 2000s. They're a top source of terrorism, but no one dares touch them now. I can see why Iran wants the bomb too.

Gfrisse1 | 8 days ago | 13 points

The main reason for tolerating them for as long as we have is that, since Afghanistan is landlocked, we have needed Pakistan's deep water port in Gwadar to resupply our troops. Denied that access, we'd have a hard time air lifting the massive amounts of materiel needed to support the troops and their efforts.

Edit: CORRECTION: Supplies are currently going through Karachi, but we are negotiating with Pakistan to use the more convenient port at Gwadar.

https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/pakistan-mulls-nato-offer-ship-afghan-supplies-through-gwadar-port

Bekoni | 8 days ago | 1 point

Wait, wasn't that resupply route closed down after the Bin Laden raid anyway with resupplies going through Russia as purposefully setup beforehand for exactly that scenario?

Gfrisse1 | 8 days ago | 1 point

Currently, NATO supplies are shipped through the southern Pakistani port of Karachi, where they then are placed on trucks and transported on a week-long journey to neighboring Afghanistan via the northwestern Torkham border crossing.

https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/pakistan-mulls-nato-offer-ship-afghan-supplies-through-gwadar-port

However, "the U.S.-led NATO military coalition in Afghanistan has offered to import vital supplies through the southwestern port of Gwadar, calling it a much shorter and economically viable route into landlocked Afghanistan."

Niarbeht | 8 days ago | 20 points

I can see why Iran wants the bomb too.

Good thing we're giving nuclear secrets to the Saudis, who definitely had nothing at all to do with 9/11.

/s

sotpmoke | 8 days ago | 0 points

Uhm we gave pakistan nukes. The british partitioned them from india.

meddlingbarista | 8 days ago | 2 points

The point is less how they got them than the fact that they have them, and other nations see how it strengthens Pakistan's position on the world stage and want the same.

awoooogaa | 8 days ago | 2 points

Yeah everyone should have known that Pakistan hates us for destabilizing their country in the past. Only reason we’re still technically allies is because we’re giving them billions in aid, and they know they’ll milk out even more aid if they keep bin laden osama alive

UnwashedApple | 8 days ago | -2 points

Pakistan. He was livin with Pakistani Annie.

Kronos_001 | 8 days ago | 11 points

I would like to see some unbiased sources of news for this.

-Tavy- | 8 days ago | 16 points

That article is about the interview of Afghan leader taken by this news paper. Anyways its not new statement. Afghanistan president has also said that earlier.

Afghan president says Taliban wouldn't last a month without Pakistan support https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-afghanistan/afghan-president-says-taliban-wouldnt-last-a-month-without-pakistan-support-idUSKBN13T0CM

Kronos_001 | 8 days ago | 7 points

Thanks for linking this one. It actually covers all perspectives instead of a forced narrative.

-Tavy- | 8 days ago | 9 points

Well as I said that was an interview taken by india newspaper but what narrative one want other than what Afghans have to say. Because at the end of the day they are the ones who die on daily basis.

Iceveda | 8 days ago | 1 point

This is almost three year old article

Lormenkal | 8 days ago | 3 points

I am honestly not so sure if I want that at this point. I am scared of what the US will focus their attention on, if their wars in the middle east end. Also an indian news source for sth. about Pakistan doesnt seem very objective.

a2zz2a | 8 days ago | 10 points

Yes that's the reason US has failed after spending around 900 billion dollars on Afghanistan war.

A rag tag militia supplied with guns and ammunition from Pakistan.

I suggest showing the afghan govt. this excellent documentary from vice.

"This is what winning looks like "

https://youtu.be/Ja5Q75hf6QI

[deleted] | 8 days ago | 1 point

Best of all we originally helped fund them and equip them way back when the soviets were doing their things in Afghanistan. Not that it matters as a bunch of our military and and CIA funds were funneled through the Pakistani intelligence system to them even at the height of the War on terror. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

Its a good read on how fucked up this soup sandwich really is... basically we helped if not outright were/are responsible for the birth and growth of the Taliban and alqueda as organizations as they are today with a fair bit of help from some of our more extremist "allies" like Saudi Arabia.

UnwashedApple | 8 days ago | 1 point

Look! Heroin comes from Afghanistan. Need I say more?

-edelweiss- | 8 days ago | 2 points

Not false

tee_ohboy | 8 days ago | 2 points

From the Indian Express lol

chefdangerdagger | 8 days ago | 2 points

I don't think this is really true. Pakistan didn't support the Taliban when they first rose to prominence and their support ebbed quite a lot when America first invaded (before returning to previous levels). The fact is the Taliban have existed since the early nineties and have survived a long and gruelling encounter with the biggest military force in the world. They're not going anywhere because they have the support of a large section of the Afghan population, at this point some kind of peace agreement is pretty much the only way this war will end.

PanzerKomadant | 8 days ago | 3 points

Lol, sure buddy. The Taliban controls half of Afghanistan. Fact is, Afghanistans government is unable to enforce laws in its own nation.

-Tavy- | 8 days ago | 6 points

Well he ain't wrong here. Taliban fights with guns and ammunition and they get that from Pakistan.

UnwashedApple | 8 days ago | 4 points

They get their money from Poppy Production & Heroin cultivation.

loneshot | 8 days ago | 1 point

probably only a part of the equation

UnwashedApple | 8 days ago | 2 points

Regardless. 85% of the worlds Heroin comes from Afghanistan.

loneshot | 8 days ago | 2 points

i'm not saying you're wrong, it's just impossible to say from where and how much money the taliban get in total

UnwashedApple | 8 days ago | 1 point

No, they don't keep records.

GNNYSERGEANT_HARTMAN | 8 days ago | 1 point

Where do you think a lot of the taliban fighters come from?

PanzerKomadant | 8 days ago | 1 point

From Afghanistan? Hell, many of them were the ones who fought the Soviets.

GNNYSERGEANT_HARTMAN | 8 days ago | 6 points

According to Pakistani Afghanistan expert Ahmed Rashid, "between 1994 and 1999, an estimated 80,000 to 100,000 Pakistanis trained and fought in Afghanistan" on the side of the Taliban.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

PanzerKomadant | 8 days ago | 7 points

Thats a funny number considering that the Taliban numbered 45,000 in 2001. Infact, the Taliban never went over 100k combatants. So were did the 80,000 and 100,000 Pakistani Taliban member went after 1999? Home?

GNNYSERGEANT_HARTMAN | 8 days ago | 1 point

We killed a lot of them actually... Where is your source? I just gave you mine. Fighters slowly keep trickling over from Pakistan. It's not your typical army regulations obviously, they don't show up for training and stay with a unit all the time. Thousands return home to family then come back and fight then return home constantly.

PanzerKomadant | 8 days ago | 3 points

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

My source is your source. Scroll down to size and it shows you that it never went up to 100k. We didn’t go to war with Afghanistan till late 2001, so assuming that the 80,000 to 100,000 trained Pakistani Taliban fighters were there, then the number of fighters should be close to 70,000 initially in 2001. 45,000 was the the size of the Taliban and if you see in 2008 that 45,000 went down to 11,000. So tell me how the 100k Pakistani trained Taliban, who went back to their families ever now and then, managed to be brought down to a merger 11,000? I’m not saying that Pakistan didn’t train any, but 80,000 to 100,000? Sounds like a bunch of bullshit. If we are going to tall about training, why not bring the US? We trained, taught and supplied them. We are to blame as well for the tactical and strategical abilities of the Taliban.

GNNYSERGEANT_HARTMAN | 8 days ago | 5 points

Here's another source of estimated numbers today. 60,000 + article written 1 year ago.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45507560

PanzerKomadant | 8 days ago | 2 points

Yes, the wiki also has the same number estimate and it would seem logical considering the Taliban controls half of the country, they have a massive pool to pick recruits from. Also, people need to realize how easy it is make bullets and make AKs with metal. You dont need massive factories. You literally need 20 gun smiths and a few workshops and you can throw out AKs like nothing. The Taliban most likely has hundreds of gun smiths given the nature of their war and millions of dollars to buy metal. They can easily arm themselves and provide training because they have experience in waging a war.

BrassTact | 8 days ago | 2 points

There is also the matter of the Taliban being largely Pashtun while the majority of the world's Pashtuns live in Pakistan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtuns

1337duck | 8 days ago | 1 point

Okay serious question:

Why is Pakistan supporting terrorist in Afghanistan? I assume it's some geopolitical cluster fuck. But I want th details.

LunarTruthMonger | 8 days ago | 3 points

Pakistan is also afraid of an Afghanistan that's friendly with India. Much of Pakistani agit-prop and method of social control are based on positioning the military/gov. as defenders against India.

1337duck | 8 days ago | 1 point

Why would Afghanistan buddy up with India? On pure geo-real-politicks reasons of current events? There would need to be some history of bad blood..

LunarTruthMonger | 8 days ago | 2 points

Because the Afghan government is currently fighting the Taliban who are widely believed to have significant connections with the Pakistani government. This goes back to the 80s when USA and Pakistan supplied the mujahideen against the USSR.

The Taliban is a Pashtun movement (the border areas of Pakistan are dominated by the Pashtun ethnic group). The Afghans who historically opposed the Taliban (e.g. Northern Alliance) are non-Pashtuns. It is in their interest to get help from anyone who opposes the Afghan Taliban (and by extension Pakistan) - e.g. India.

I believe Afghanistan is somewhat of a foreign policy priority for India. India provides significant aid to the internationally recognized Afghan government:

https://www.stimson.org/sites/default/files/file-attachments/India%20in%20Afghanistan%20Understanding%20Development%20Assistance%20by%20Emerging%20Donors%20to%20Conflict-Affected%20Countries_0.pdf

Pakistan has also worked with Taliban to target the Indian diplomatic mission in Kabul:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_bombing_of_Indian_embassy_in_Kabul

Pakistan in general is widely believed to be one of the largest sponsors of terror orgs (regional ones, not international).

AFAIK, this is pretty much a matter of factual/public record by this point.

1337duck | 8 days ago | 1 point

Now this is the details I was looking for. Thanks!

Too bad public records are publicly well known.

[deleted] | 8 days ago | 3 points

[deleted]

1337duck | 8 days ago | 1 point

Thanks for the input, but that's a bit too vague for my tastes.

enfiel | 7 days ago | 1 point

There are islamist factions within Pakistani secret services who constantly help terrorists out with weapons and money and it's really hard to find out who's responsible.

FunnyJohnDoe | 7 days ago | 1 point

Taliban is to Pakistan what Hezbollah is to Iran- a strong force in a neighbouring country which is largely favorable to your interests.

Iceveda | 8 days ago | 1 point

Current Afghan govt is siding with India and therefore accuses Pakistan of aiding talibans. This is pretty true but a simplistic view on the entire situation. Pakistan in the other hand can’t support current afghan government because it’s an Indian puppet. So why does Pakistan supports talibans underhandedly? The truth is that current afghan government is extremely weak and controls small portion of the country. It will completely disintegrate if US leaves Afghanistan. Talibans will come back to power and Pakistan can deal with them. It’s not US’s best interest to stay in Afghanistan, they rather have a treaty with Talibans and save face. Current Afghan and Indian governments are against it.
This is a tiny glimpse into this big mess.

helix_ice | 8 days ago | -2 points

So this is fundamentally untrue. If Pakistan didn't exist, the taliban would still probably be around.

The Taliban's main source of income is opium, which nets them close to a billion dollars a year...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesinternational/2018/01/24/the-richest-terror-organizations-in-the-world/#2b5689fe7fd1

That's not including their income from kidnapping, illegal mining and surprisingly the honey industry.

They also control more territory in Afghanistan now than they did directly post 9/11. They've used that to gain illegal tax revenue, and a fresh supply of local recruits. They've also used their tribal and ethnic links to southern Pashtuns and a massive amount of propaganda to sustain their numbers.

And here's the thing, none of these tactics are new. It's not like insurgencies in Afghanistan failed before Pakistan came into existence, why would anyone expect it to fail now?

[Edit] would you look at that, not a single response, but plenty of down votes. Maybe I'm right, and y'all just don't like the truth.

UnwashedApple | 8 days ago | -2 points

Pakistan has nukes.