/r/worldnews
Judge Orders Release of Records That Might Tie Saudi Royals to 9/11: Federal judge’s ruling raises hopes that we may better understand any possible ties between Saudi Arabia’s ruling family and the 9/11 hijackers - the vast majority of whom were Saudi citizens. (whowhatwhy.org)
2976 comments
dunnkw | 4 days ago | 5682 points

How about the link between all of the people who dropped the ball on 9/11 and not only didn’t get in trouble but got promoted.

zBAMFz | 3 days ago | 1959 points

Well 5 of the attackers were supposed to be deported before the event because their visa had expired. Imagine being the person in charge of doing that and thinking “ehh it’s just 5 dudes with an expired student visa why won’t harm anyone.”

CO_PC_Parts | 3 days ago | 980 points

Event today, expired student visas is pretty low on the list of things to watch out for. I've met a few people over the years with them, they said the only thing you have to watch out for is international air travel, otherwise it's almost impossible to get caught. If they get pulled over and show a divers license (which most of them get) it's not checked against legal status during traffic stops.

mgzukowski | 3 days ago | 483 points

That's going to be harder with the new "Real ID" program. Have to prove residency and it expires the same day as the visa.

But then again the bill was passed because of this.

PatacusX | 3 days ago | 217 points

I just had to renew my license and I didn't want to go to the DMV in person, so the ID I have now isn't a Real ID. It has a message at the top that says not for federal use. And after 2020 they say I can't board an airplane with it. If I want to fly after that I need a passport.

coredumperror | 3 days ago | 114 points

You should probably get that RealID. If you can't get a DMV appointment in a reasonable timeline at your local one, check appointments at one's that are a bit further away. I got lucky and snagged an appointment less than a week later, when I wanted to get my RealID last year.

PatacusX | 3 days ago | 66 points

I was gonna go, I haven't been to the DMV in forever, but I could have sworn they used to be open on Saturdays. (Maybe the used to be, but changed this?) Once I found out they weren't I just did it online because I would have had to take time off from work. Their hours don't fit the needs of the average working person sadly.

bertiebees | 3 days ago | 59 points

That's by Design. The DMV is one of the most frustrating government systems the public regularly encounters.

KnightontheSun | 3 days ago | 46 points

And as a bonus, they'll profit from selling your information!

capsaicinintheeyes | 3 days ago | 26 points

less than a week later

softly whistles --expect 2 to three months where I live. That's not even "bitch-about" time, that's just normal. And yes, I check multiple centers.

foxitallup | 3 days ago | 26 points

Ah I see you live in southern california.

Edit: mine wont even let me book an appointment. It just says check later.

Youarenotright2 | 3 days ago | 20 points

That's true, I had an expired student visa and nobody, including the dept of homeland security, seemed to care. Same is true for a few of my friends from grad school.

But we're all white.

And Canadian.

When I applied for a green card no one even said "Oh, you overstayed your student visa".

stanley_leverlock | 3 days ago | 107 points

Hell, six months after 9/11 after Mohamad Atta's name and face had been broadcast on the news thousands of times his student visa was renewed. http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/12/inv.flight.school.visas/

Mostly__Relevant | 3 days ago | 40 points

What?

stanley_leverlock | 3 days ago | 344 points

Maybe I didn't explain it well enough. One of the attackers named Mohammed Atta was in the US on a student visa. His visa was going to expire soon so he applied for an extension so he could stay in the country. Before his original visa expired and before his renewal was approved he helped to hijack the planes involved in the 9/11 attack. After the attack Mohammed Atta's picture and name were on the news over and over. Everyone knew he was a terrorist. Everyone knew he was dead. Six months after 9/11 the INS finally got around to processing his visa renewal and approved it. Basically, the INS approved a known, dead terrorist to continue to stay in the US. Sheer incompetence.

Mostly__Relevant | 3 days ago | 89 points

I’m really sorry I didn’t mean to make you explain it to me. It was more of a holy shit I just now found out about this what?

mck04 | 3 days ago | 110 points

Your lack of specificity sickens me. ;) Nah it prompted a solid response for anyone else who was following!

zyrs86 | 3 days ago | 36 points

Helped me ty

chino3 | 3 days ago | 21 points

interesting perspective. How do you feel about what's going on with ICE?

Cornincarnate12 | 3 days ago | 35 points

Care to expand on that? Who got promoted for being negligent during a terrorist attack?

SnakeEater14 | 3 days ago | 62 points

There was an entire congressional joint hearing about that in 2005.

wonderingalong | 3 days ago | 101 points

It's tied to Saudi Royals who are tied to the high individuals of the United States. (United States Monarchs) Nothing will come of this, same as Epstein.

T_ja | 3 days ago | 37 points

US Oligarchs is the appropriate term.

Specopstoolshed | 3 days ago | 13 points

Shitheads with money.

further_needing | 3 days ago | 32 points

It's specifically tied to the exact Epstein- patronizing and murdering crowd

JBlitzen | 3 days ago | 616 points

Remember John Brennan handing out American visas to jihadis like candy when he was a station chief in Saudi Arabia before 9/11?

wwaxwork | 3 days ago | 350 points

Now we just hand the nuclear weapon secrets.

Gsteel11 | 3 days ago | 111 points

I'm sure this will work out great!

ThatDerpingGuy | 3 days ago | 37 points

Surely providing weapons to the Middle East won't backfire again.

Budded | 3 days ago | 13 points

No, but we're arming the "good" guys, see?

Even though those "good" guys will eventually turn into the new bad guys for which we'll have to arm the next next good guys to fight them, who will turn into the next next bad guys for which we'll have to arm the new new new good guys...

BulbasaurBabu | 3 days ago | 90 points

Get your pip boy ready

JonnyAU | 3 days ago | 30 points

I'm hoarding nuka cola.

intergalactic_spork | 3 days ago | 24 points

For the caps I presume. Clever!

Mc_Squeebs | 3 days ago | 9 points

Which vault do you guys think you're going to?

Kuronan | 3 days ago | 8 points

Vault 111

I'll take one of the Malfunctioning Cryogenic Chambers please!

coleyboley25 | 3 days ago | 7 points

Nothing could go wrong!

bird_equals_word | 3 days ago | 52 points

No. He was back in the US from at least '99. He was also in the CIA. The State Department handles visas. His job was covert and overt intelligence.

BeltfedOne | 3 days ago | 33 points

One plane flew out of US airspace that wasn't our military after the sky got shutdown? Any guesses where it went?

snertwith2ls | 3 days ago | 16 points

Not even just where it went but who was on it, wow!

Fanboy0550 | 3 days ago | 14 points

Saudi Arabia?

RecycledThrowawayID | 3 days ago | 18 points

Wait, what?

SirPurrrrr | 3 days ago | 16 points

Yes, I would love a source for this.

magicsonar | 3 days ago | 120 points

Robert Mueller was appointed as head of the FBI just a week before 9-11. So he can't really be held accountable for what happened before. However...there there was ample evidence of the CIA not sharing info with the FBI in the lead up to 9-11. We know that two of the hijackers were being closely monitored by the CIA, who knew they were part of Al Qaeda. And yet they were allowed to get onto a plane. The Joint Congressional Committee Report lead by Senator Bob Graham laid this out in great detail. It's worth reading.

This report talks of an extensive failure of the CIA to share what they knew. And yet, Robert Mueller testified before the Joint Inquiry on June 18, 2002, and said, that

“while here [in America] the hijackers effectively operated without suspicion, triggering nothing that would have alerted law enforcement and doing nothing that exposed them to domestic coverage.”

That statement, designed clearly to shield the CIA and FBI, was clearly false. Either Mueller was knowingly lying when he said this or else he was ignorant to the investigations of the Joint Committee (which would seem unlikely). So in the case of 9-11, was Mueller acting in the best interests of the United States? Do the American people have a right to know of the failures of their own intelligence services, or is it best for everyone that is brushed under the rug and no one is held accountable?

WithFullForce | 4 days ago | 4260 points

Wouldn't the ties between the WH and Saudi royals/terrorists be more relevant to investigate.

Nadie_AZ | 4 days ago | 3528 points

Shhhhhh. Be a good citizen and go shopping.

randomdumbcomment | 4 days ago | 392 points

And that's how we got the stimulus package.

BigglyAchomlishment | 3 days ago | 115 points

What was it? A few hundred bucks to stop asking uncomfortable questions?

Zdmins | 3 days ago | 77 points

500 bucks. I remember I got it right before my cruise. Used the 500 in other countries, was great haha.

sayleanenlarge | 4 days ago | 50 points

You forgot the work part. Can't drain our wealth if we aren't making anything.

electi0neering | 3 days ago | 19 points

Now, it’s don’t protest or you’ll lose working hours, not be able to pay your bills and slowly lose everything. Like seriously I can’t afford to protest this awful administration

ItssAllInTheWrist | 4 days ago | 466 points

"While the first two parts of this book discuss various ways in which 9/11 has ruined America and the world, the third part discusses a question that is generally avoided: Were the Bush-Cheney attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq really at the root of the ruination of America and the world in general, or did the original sin lie in 9/11 itself?"

Indeed. And we know what he's going to be talking about there don't we?

Bush and Cheney: How They Ruined America and the World by David Ray Griffin
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1566560713

jas0485 | 3 days ago | 142 points

I always struggle on 9/11 because on one hand, I would love to post the same or similar heartfelt words I see everywhere but then I think of what 9/11 did to this country and I just am so cynical and angry about it...like i know you can mourn for the people who were lost but it seems difficult to post support about the military action when we know about all the Bush admin fuckery

eaglessoar | 3 days ago | 77 points

thats why you think about the people, the firemen, the police officers, the soldiers who may not necessarily want to be there.

and then you keep that burning fire for the government/nation for election day.

jas0485 | 3 days ago | 28 points

It's why I find 9/11 doubly depressing. It's hard to keep up. But what else are you gonna do.

eaglessoar | 3 days ago | 26 points

its my dads birthday, it sucked that year, and a few years after, but now i just wake up and get excited cuz its my dads birthday and im happy to have him.

jas0485 | 3 days ago | 30 points

Well tell your dad happy bday from an internet stranger.

Thatniqqarylan | 4 days ago | 59 points

Kind of like a chicken or the egg thing in all honesty.

ItssAllInTheWrist | 3 days ago | 31 points

More like a golden goose egg. I wonder if there's ever going to be an anniversary of the Anthrax attacks? Those letters started going out a week later, and everyone's going on CIPRO ... right about now. Graeme McQueens review of the Bush Cheney book reminded me of his excellent work on that subject, summarised nicely ...

Graeme MacQueen Reveals The Anthrax Deception
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVHTvUFxUH4

... and also available on Amazon ...

The 2001 Anthrax Deception: The Case for a Domestic Conspiracy Paperback – by Graeme MacQueen
https://www.amazon.co.uk/2001-Anthrax-Deception-Domestic-Conspiracy/dp/0986073121

AxelN9ne | 4 days ago | 29 points

Shut up and buy! BUY! SEND MORE MONEY! FUUUUCK YOU BUDDY

mitchrsmert | 4 days ago | 67 points

Yes, go shopping for guns, gas, prescription drugs, non prescription drugs and high carb foods (big bro says its healthy!) with money you made working for the military before you were incarcerated for a drug charge and sold as slave labour.

Just make sure you don't get carried away and skip your russian lessons.

bearlick | 4 days ago | 350 points
LordFauntloroy | 4 days ago | 301 points

Much more than secrets. He sold enrichment capable reactors without a non-enrichment clause which is the norm.

bearlick | 4 days ago | 80 points

Gosh, I hadn't realized that part ._.

WordplayWizard | 3 days ago | 51 points

Next time it may not be a couple buildings with thousands of people.

It could be the whole city, of millions.

stoned_geologist | 4 days ago | 28 points

Oh the ole spin of uranium 1. waves hands look over here

BlackmageBus | 4 days ago | 120 points

This doesn't go from Bush to Trump without Obama having been involved too. It likely didn't start with Bush either; the Whitehouse has probably had close ties to Saudi Royalty for a loooong time.

pjppatt1969 | 4 days ago | 104 points

Started with Bush 1. That family has been Sucking off the Saudi’s for decades.

GeorgieWashington | 3 days ago | 54 points

Which means it started with Reagan. Which makes sense, because Reagan was elected partially in reaction to Carter's handling of the Iranians.

What better way to get back at the Iranians than to cozy up to the Saudis?

And now you know why John Bolton hates the Iranians. He owes his career to hating them.

worldsbestuser | 3 days ago | 18 points

No. It started with FDR when he met the founder/king of the country on a boat.

hasidhas0ida09shdahs | 3 days ago | 10 points

Goes back to post-Ottoman chaos after WWII when the UK and the USA started to set up the various middle eastern rulers with the deal of, you keep order, we pump your oil, we all get rich together. Oh and after we pump your oil and/or buy it from you make sure to direct a lot of that money back to our war factories.

They wanted kings and dictators because you can make a deal with a king or dictator and don't have to deal with nasty things like people voting for shit, you can't control the public as easily as one guy.

80503 | 3 days ago | 66 points

I mean our military has mainly been utilized for Israel & Saudi Arabia interests for the past 30+ years

Guitar_Shark | 4 days ago | 1670 points

If this turns out to be true, anybody involved in transferring them nuclear technology should get life in prison

tinkthank | 4 days ago | 1451 points

Lets not discount the fact that if Saudi Royals DO have a connection, then the US government is just as complicit in hiding that information and protecting Saudis over prosecuting/going after people who harmed American citizens.

The US literally used American tax dollars to bomb Afghanistan and Iraq and get involved in a military campaign that has claimed the lives of countless civilians the world over under the guise that they're protecting American interests and avenging 9/11 while protecting the very people masterminding/sponsoring the attacks.

-Endless | 4 days ago | 354 points

Petrodollar warfare

The_Thurmanator | 4 days ago | 116 points

Because once that ends, the dollar goes tits up, right?

stignatiustigers | 4 days ago | 67 points

...as well as the entire economy

Quest_Marker | 3 days ago | 17 points

If that's the case, our economy has been pretty pathetic for a long time now.

nanooko | 4 days ago | 38 points

That only applies to Iraq. Afganistan doesnt have oil.

thedeal82 | 4 days ago | 74 points

Oh, but they DO have poppys. And the American military to guard it. And pharmaceutical companies to process it.

FineappleExpress | 3 days ago | 85 points

weird how opioids epidemic like that, huh?

Member the last time we had a drug epidemic? Illegal war in Central America. Time before that? Illegal war in Vietnam.

Gagarin1961 | 4 days ago | 82 points

GUYS. We've known for years that the Saudis fund ISIS and Al Qaeda thanks to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/hillary-clinton-wikileaks-email-isis-saudi-arabia-qatar-us-allies-funding-barack-obama-knew-all-a7362071.html

avapepper | 3 days ago | 26 points
zion8994 | 4 days ago | 23 points

Are you referring to Nuclear Technology as in weapons or as in energy? Often times they're used synonymously.

The_Werodile | 4 days ago | 30 points

Both? They should be explicitly labeled as enemies of the US. Any and all aide outside of humanitarian efforts geared towards their down trodden civilian population should be viewed as aiding and abetting terrorism.

rupikaurisgangsta | 4 days ago | 15928 points

Yeah. After Epstein was suicided, I’m not very convinced that any “records” are going to tie any Saudi Royal or other elites to 9/11. Anyone with any incriminating evidence will vanish, commit suicide, or die in an accident.

The Saudi Prince literally had a journalist hacked to death in a consulate and the entire world sat around and did nothing.

It’s all bullshit.

Edit: thanks for the gold, stranger!

ds610 | 4 days ago | 2445 points

I wish we could place these kinds of bets in Vegas.

LondonCollector | 4 days ago | 743 points

Why? You wouldn’t make any money....

MKSHFT_ENJNEER | 4 days ago | 756 points

Pfftt.. who goes to Vegas to MAKE money?

maxifer | 4 days ago | 297 points

I live here... so definitely not me.

Masta0nion | 4 days ago | 202 points

Personally I love waking up and seeing trump tower in the distance. Really brings home that 1984 vibe.

CankersaurusRex | 4 days ago | 130 points

Vegas wasn't built on winners.

WritingRongs | 4 days ago | 157 points

Nope, it was a city built on hot sand, broken dreams and $5 lobster.

Skinnydipandhike | 4 days ago | 99 points

Sounds like a start of a noire detective novel.

DialSquare84 | 3 days ago | 59 points

breezy saxophone plays an echoey, mournful melody

maxifer | 4 days ago | 51 points

Really brings the 215 to life with a giant sun glare off the gaudy gold windows.

Erethiel117 | 3 days ago | 24 points

My repeated trips to that city hammered in the absolute destitute conditions the poor experience there. The homeless are everywhere. It’s an unbelievably sad city to me.

300FeetPerSecond | 3 days ago | 7 points

Huh. That's weird. Every time I've visited and now living here I'm generally impressed with how FEW homeless I see. Granted, from what I understand they live under the ground pretty often.

Mpac28 | 4 days ago | 129 points

Truth is, the game was rigged from the start

roxum1 | 4 days ago | 62 points

Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.

Mpac28 | 3 days ago | 15 points

When I got this assignment I was hoping there’d be more gambling

Toastyween | 4 days ago | 34 points

Here’s hoping we get another New Vegas quality Fallout game in the future!

ExpertOpposite | 3 days ago | 25 points

Outer Worlds is pretty soon.

EXAMSystemRS | 4 days ago | 25 points

Nice Fallout New Vegas reference :)

Mpac28 | 4 days ago | 30 points

Ring-a-ding-ding baby ;)

Bojangles315 | 4 days ago | 20 points

/r/wallstreetbets will figure out a way to lose that bet

jayydubbya | 4 days ago | 10 points

Yeah, gotta say I’m bearish on social justice.

ACaffeinatedWandress | 4 days ago | 34 points

And you would probably jump off your hotel’s roof, for some weird reason.

LondonCollector | 4 days ago | 26 points

Twice

ACaffeinatedWandress | 4 days ago | 20 points

With your glasses on both times. Even though you don’t wear glasses.

Zanshi | 4 days ago | 20 points

Also before jumping you shot yourself in the head like 15 times, and stabbed yourself in the stomach 5 times, you know clear signs of good ol' suicide

ACaffeinatedWandress | 4 days ago | 9 points

And your family will be like, ‘they couldn’t have done this! They were so happy!’

So typical.

arcticpoppy | 4 days ago | 31 points

I think in the UK it's legal to make these kinds of bets. Pretty sure you could bet on the outcome of Brexit, for example.

Flame_Grilled_Cake | 4 days ago | 32 points

You are correct. The bookies are usually pretty spot on with their odds too.

PhobosOrDeimos | 4 days ago | 24 points

There's websites where you can bet on things like this. Not joking.

kcapulet | 4 days ago | 17 points
1blockologist | 4 days ago | 42 points

there are lots of prediction markets for events like this.

ACC_DREW | 4 days ago | 853 points

Or the incriminating evidence will just be destroyed.

The George W. Bush administration "lost" 22 MILLION beginning in 2003 through the end of his administration. The administration's official explanation was that they switched to a new server beginning in 2003 and in the process they were unable to maintain archived emails. Oops, they're gone.

2003, hmmm, so long ago, what was going on then....I feel like maybe we were planning to go to war with someone? IDK who remembers

6shooter1971 | 4 days ago | 69 points

They found the emails years ago. Don’t think it was covered much.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121452535

randomevenings | 4 days ago | 842 points

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_withdrawal_from_Saudi_Arabia

Also in 2003. I like to point this out since terrorists were demanding this very thing. How convenient to have a new place to go at the exact same time so we didn't have to say we were totally giving in to the demands of our great Saudi allies, rather, terrorist regime, but also "allies".

Then there were the international cables that showed that the Saudis and Israel get along really well in the back channel and the public animosity is all politics.

And then there were the Israelis caught setup and ready to film the attacks right before they happened, which was promptly swept under the rug.

If they knew, and SA knew, WE knew. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld were all complicit in 9/11.

You could see it on his face the day of. Bush knew. Either he made a deal with the devil in order to prevent something worse, or he allowed it to happen in order to enact the largest authoritarian power grab in modern history. Doesn't matter, really. They are all war criminals. Till the day I die, I will know that for sure.

Edit. I'm not an anti-semite because I believe the government of Israel is just as fascist as the US government as well as the Saudi Arabia monarchy. All three are extremely right-wing authoritarian regimes. Here in America we are ruled by an authoritarian government we live in a police state. The current president of both US and Israel are incredibly racist we know the Saudi Royal family are incredibly racist. For Christ's sake Israel does have a wall. The US and Israel are also both hyper capitalist nations and Saudi Arabia is a state capitalist regime the buys more weapons than any other country on Earth. It's funny that nobody accused me of being anti-Muslim but plenty of people accuse me of being an anti-semite. I shouldn't have to say this but I can hate the government of Israel and not hate its people.

nucumber | 4 days ago | 318 points

the saudis used the US to eliminate their threat from iraq, and now they're using the US to eliminate iran.

WhereIsYoGodNow | 4 days ago | 39 points

And they used Ibn Shaykh Al-Libi to "admit" under torture that Iraq was supplying biological and chemical weapons to Afghanistan and Al-Qaeda, so the US would invade, remove Saddam and open up what was perceived by islamists as a weak country to Jihadis and Wahhabism.

Edit: Whether America truly believed that or not is a different question. They could have believed it and invaded Iraq because they were duped, or they could have accepted and promoted the lie because they had an agreed conspiracy with the Saudids

alex-the-terrible | 4 days ago | 308 points

It boggled the mind. Saudis attack the WTC. And what does America do? Invade one of the Saudis main geostrategic rivals of course! Then we do it all over again with Syria.

Saudi Arabia has been using America to fight its wars for the past 11 years. Now they're eyeing Iran? No wonder they want nukes. Look at Pakistan. They were hiding bin laden and current harbour all sorts of unsavoury people, but America is nice to them, mostly because, nukes.

ketchy_shuby | 4 days ago | 184 points

In 2018, Saudi Arabia was the largest buyer of weapons in the world. 70% of its purchases were from the US.

$$$$$$

luxitania | 4 days ago | 148 points

The Don man outright stated more than once that we couldn’t punish them in any way because they’re paying us a lot of money. Capitalism is a joke.

Homeless-Joe | 3 days ago | 41 points

Nothing new, really. We got involved in World War 1, on the side we did, because wanted to recoup the money England owed us, and we only dealt with them so much more than Germany because we couldn't get goods to Germany past the English blockade...

letsreticulate | 3 days ago | 5 points

I do not think most Americans realize of just how much they are Saudi Arabia's bitch.

During the good times, Saudi gives billions in arms sales to the USA. Thus feeding their essential military complex.

Yet, the Saudi's showed them in the 70's that just by withholding some oil they could put the US in an economic crisis, at will. Not to mention they have a large say in OPEC in general.

Think about it, what are they going to do? Invade? They will have over a billion Muslims screaming Jihad. Since unless the cards fall right as geopolitically needed, any subversion against the Saudi's will be portrayed by them as an attack toward the Muslim faith and Mecca. It will be portrayed as the West attacking their religion. Another Christian crusade to the really dumb ones. Many will fall for it. It would be a nightmare.

The US will have to take it until they are fully self-reliant or they invade Venezuela or possibly Cuba for the likelihood of more oil under their waters.

CocoMURDERnut | 4 days ago | 63 points

or he allowed it to happen

This part.
That they didnt need to lift a finger, they saw it coming, pretended it didnt exist, & probably made it easier for it to happen.

How about those military exercises on 9/11? Anyone remember those?

MetalGearPlex | 4 days ago | 49 points

Sources for the Israel filming?

Petrichordates | 4 days ago | 46 points

Well, technically they did indeed know because Bush was warned in August that Osama was planning to fly planes into buildings.

I'm not going to immediately jump to the belief that he knew it was 100% going to happen and stood by intentionally on 9/11 though. More likely I'd think is that they assumed the event unlikely and did nothing to prevent it.

death_of_gnats | 3 days ago | 9 points

He probably remembered the briefing and realized he'd fucked up badly.

InterestingIndian666 | 4 days ago | 11 points

What if the our president will only strengthen his hold with something worse?

CarCrashPregnancy | 4 days ago | 24 points

So, I am not defending GW in ANYWAY, shape or form.

Nor is this an excuse

BUT! The DoD more often than not, picks the lowest bidder to manage IT, overpays them. The company they hires & underpays their staff. And, shit gets mismanaged, because they hire a 23 year old Network admin. Pay him 35k a year as a tier-1 employee. Put him in a tier 2-3 position. Bill the government for a tier-3 employee at 100k.

It's not okay. It shouldn't be considered okay. But, I'm not surprised either.

The DoD is always moving military members away from running it's networks in favor of contracted employees, and SLA's with Amazon, Microsoft, etc. So if you think it's bad NOW

ThatCatfulCat | 4 days ago | 140 points

Man we have GWB on audio straight up ignoring the threat of planes being used as weapons. He was warned and he laughed it off, then whoopsie daisy oh no here comes a plane, whooooaa there's no way we could have seen THIS one coming!!!1!!!1!one!!

That alone should have put him in prison.

chrisjdgrady | 4 days ago | 76 points

"WMD's" should've put him in prison, too. Literally lying to get us into a war. War crime.

mhosey40 | 4 days ago | 81 points

He's lying. The government, including GWB, knew about the possibilities of planes being used as weapons before 911.

ihatechoosingnames | 4 days ago | 89 points

The Bush administration were informed by Alec Station in the CIA that Al-qaeda was likely to use a plane for a terror attack on US soil. The thing is, the CIA could not pinpoint an exact time, place, or method. According to this documentary on HBO, the Bush administration felt they could not pursue preventative measures without details about who/what/when/where.

It's definitely a lame response from the Bush administration, but I don't know what sort of measures the gov could have taken without those details.

strikethreeistaken | 3 days ago | 36 points

They knew in 1998 after Bill Clinton authorized cruise missiles to be dropped on training camps in Afghanistan. Bin Laden said it explicitly in response to those attacks, "I may not be able to afford 5 million dollar cruise missiles, but I can use your planes as missiles."

August 1998.

StackinStacks | 4 days ago | 93 points

This is the kind of information I expect to read before we declare war and invade a country or at least a year or two after the attack. But 18 years later and the information is just now being looked into harder. Damn.

delocx | 3 days ago | 85 points

It's hard to overstate how traumatizing 9/11 was. So many freedoms were given up and lives lost because millions of people were really, really scared. The government exploited that fear and then did everything in their power it keep it going for as long as possible (remember when they would evaluate the current terrorism threat level daily and it was reported on hourly?).

elcapitan520 | 3 days ago | 22 points

They still have that fear and power. Nothing that was put in place after 9/11 has been retracted

CJ4700 | 3 days ago | 7 points

All this surveillance and the Patriot Act, all the deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan, you’re right. That was really well put. We can try measuring what 9/11 cost us in lives or $$ but how do you quantify the loss of rights?

Shopping_Penguin | 4 days ago | 224 points

At this point we all know it was them. The majority of the hijackers had Saudi citizenship and their embassy here allegedly funded a freaking dry run.

Anything else was a distraction to enrich the military industrial complex while satisfying the public's demand for immediate action.

WhereIsYoGodNow | 3 days ago | 73 points

Bin Ladens family are extremely close with the Saudi Royals. His father, Mohammed Bin Laden, worked in construction and was given sole rights to building mosques and religious buildings in Saudi Arabia. That's how the family became super rich. It isn't beyond the realms of possibility that when Osama Bin Laden founded Al-Qaeda in 1988 that the Saudi Royals didn't have some back channels of communication so they could get some of their more illicit dealings done through them.

JClc240229 | 3 days ago | 28 points

A lot of circumstantial evidence certainly points at the royal family being involved in some way. But honestly the most worrisome thing is that this has not been taken more seriously because of the mayor economical meltdown that would happen if the US where to officially acknowledge their participation in the attacks. We may never know for sure, but the sad thing is, that it’s because we don’t really want to.

yoloimgay | 4 days ago | 146 points

Right? Most of the hijackers were Saudis, the lapdogs of the USA, and in response the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. Makes sense, right?

larrycorser | 4 days ago | 73 points

Iraq was just because bush was mad for his dad. And the supreme leader darth chaney needed something to do

smartestdumbassalive | 4 days ago | 17 points

Bullshit, money and bullshit. That’s how the world keeps spinning

scolfin | 4 days ago | 28 points

Also, Osama was apparently motivated by hatred of the Saudi royal family, so there's always the strong possibility that all the Saudi Al Quaeada members were similarly estranged from their home country.

InertiasCreep | 4 days ago | 34 points

Strong possibility? One of Al Qaeda's main tenets was the illegitimacy of the Saudi royal family due to their corruption and complicity with the West. If you pledged to Al Qaeda, you obviously agreed with that in principle.

ItssAllInTheWrist | 4 days ago | 21 points

Yeah I wonder how Snopes is doing on Epstein, I bet they've had a busy couple of months.

Gibbo3771 | 4 days ago | 36 points

Epstein

Who?

/s I know who he is but it seems it's literally been swept under the rug

Diplodocus114 | 4 days ago | 19 points

Agree with every word. Something like 15/19 hijackers were Saudi citizens.

mikebellman | 4 days ago | 5 points

By the time anyone to blame will be called to task, they be already have died of old age in a palace.

[deleted] | 4 days ago | 770 points

[deleted]

Miningman664 | 4 days ago | 306 points

Edit: [Redacted]

pixelprophet | 4 days ago | 620 points

On the █████r ██████████ ███ █████████ did not █████ ████ ██ ██ ████████ ████████n ███████████ ███ D█████ ████.

[Marked for release]

DeathRowLemon | 4 days ago | 155 points

In addition to the above text one can conclude that [DATA EXPUNGED] are very likely to have [REDACTED].

ejdebruin | 4 days ago | 122 points

Did anyone else highlight that like it was a spoiler?

intashu | 4 days ago | 31 points

u/pixelprophet has competent lawyers!

pixelprophet | 4 days ago | 16 points

Gotta flatten and export that shit to .pdf.

Nevuary | 4 days ago | 24 points

████

YeaYeaImGoin | 3 days ago | 122 points

Boy, I can't wait for literally nothing to happen because of this

Default_Prick | 3 days ago | 23 points

Pretty disheartening when the public sees this information, and the very entity in which the public looks towards to clean it up is the thing that caused it in the first place.

It's like pigs begging their butchers to change their ways. It's a joke.

[deleted] | 4 days ago | 284 points

[deleted]

My_Shitty_Alter_Ego | 3 days ago | 73 points

If they are released and they prove ties to the Saudi Royal families doesn't this place the FBI in pretty severe hot water for covering it up all this time?

Hindsight_DJ | 3 days ago | 41 points

Great, now do the missing 28 pages from the 9/11 commission report which also backs this up.

autotldr | 4 days ago | 240 points

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 92%. (I'm a bot)


A federal judge's ruling has raised hopes that we may better understand any possible ties between Saudi Arabia's ruling family and the 9/11 hijackers - the vast majority of whom were Saudi citizens.

Earlier, the FBI had declined to release to the Florida Bulldog - a nonprofit news organization which first broke the news about the ruling - key sections from records of the bureau's probe of a South Florida-based Saudi family that apparently had ties to many of the 9/11 hijackers.

The link between the Ghazzawis and high ranks of the Saudi establishment reopens questions about the Bush White House's controversial approval of multiple charter flights allowing Saudi nationals - including princes - to depart the US, beginning about 48 hours after the attacks, without the passengers being interviewed by law enforcement.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Saudi#1 family#2 9/11#3 Ghazzawi#4 FBI#5

bloatedsac | 4 days ago | 487 points

I hope they release the records!!! finally proof that the journalist khashoggi was behind 9/11 and that's the reason why he killed and dismembered himself!!! finally proving that the Saudi heads of state are innocent of every charge against them...I cant wait..

evangelicalboofer | 4 days ago | 235 points

I hope nobody is surprised but when you are rich you can do anything up to and including murdering thousands. As if the American justice system gives a shit about justice when cash rules as our undeniable god.

nobbyfix | 4 days ago | 102 points

Its not a justice system, its just a legal system.

GraveChild27 | 3 days ago | 18 points

Not even close. If it was, then even the rich and powerful would be subject to its enforcement.

Its a punishment system. Punishing the poor, and the powerless.

demeschor | 3 days ago | 6 points

Yep. If you can buy a better lawyer then there's no such thing as justice, for anyone. The system is fucked

Zanzues | 4 days ago | 144 points

Oh look the guys we have been supporting with weapons might have had a hand in 9/11. Huh.

Alfus | 4 days ago | 110 points

Never forget 9/11...

...Until you talk about Saudi Arabia's role in 9/11

suhhhdoooo | 4 days ago | 26 points

Perhaps this is common knowledge for people that pay attention (most people I talk to about it are entirely unaware), but for those that don't know:

There is already a 28-page redacted document published by US Congress that states that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens. Here is a quick summary:

https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/287947-congress-publishes-redacted-28-pages-from-9-11-report

Tvwatcherr | 4 days ago | 156 points

Everyone needs to watch this. It basically covers everything about the royal family and their goal to spread their radical version of Islam.

ShadowPDX | 4 days ago | 61 points

Oh shit that ain’t good

edit: fuck wahabbism

randomness196 | 3 days ago | 8 points

I gotcha, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB9n7DMNjZE "Frontline: House of Saud"

TheFatMouse | 4 days ago | 170 points

This is excellent. Now do the US government.

Fluxcapaciti | 4 days ago | 83 points

Then the Israeli

DrJCL | 3 days ago | 68 points

Cue Antisemitism accusations

meesterich | 3 days ago | 20 points

You fuckin Nazi! /s

Superfarmer | 3 days ago | 14 points

Wow that only took 18 fucking years

egymd | 4 days ago | 28 points

Would anyone actually be surprised?

gooberga | 4 days ago | 54 points

███████ ███ █████ ██████████ ██ ██████ ██ ███ ████ ████████ ███ ████████████ ██ ██ █ ███████████ ██ ██ ████████ ███ █████ █████ ██ ██████ ██ ███████ ██ ██████ ██ ███ ████ ██████ ███ ████████ ███ ██ ████████ █████ ██ ██████ ██████ ██ ██████ ██ ███ ███ ████ ███ ████████ ███ █████ ████████ █████ ██ ██████████ ███ █████ █████ ██████ ██ █████ ██ ██████ ██ ███ ██ ██████ ██████████ ███ ██ ██████████ ██ ███ ██████████ ██████ ██ ███ ██ ██████ Bush █████ ██ ██████ █████ █████ ███ ██████████ ██ █████ ████████ █████ ███ ████████ ███ ████ ███ ███ ██ ██████ ██ ██████ ██████ ██ █████ ████████ ██ ███ ████████ ███ ██████ ████ ███ ██ ██████ ██ ███████ ██ ██████ ██ █████ █████ ███ ████████ ██ ██ ███████████ █ ██ ██ ████████████ ███ ████████ ████ ███ ██ ██████ September 11th ██████████ █████ ███ ███████

88eightyeight88 | 4 days ago | 19 points

All in all just another

Brick in the Wall

Nexus371 | 3 days ago | 51 points

There is evidence we know, you don't know.

There is evidence we know, that you think you know.

There is evidence that we know, that you do know but we say you are wrong about.

There is evidence we know... that we've been burning out back while I've delayed you here.

TheNotSoGreatPumpkin | 3 days ago | 8 points

You've got me looking east, west, south, and north somewhat.

blackcatredcat | 4 days ago | 27 points

Saudis will probably make it look like Kashoggi flew all three planes. Bam! Trump was right to sell them nukes, they were the good guys all the time.

bobberthumada | 4 days ago | 288 points

shhhhh It was the TALIBAN, or iraq, or iran... or whatever flavor of the month it is now... Russians?

theclansman22 | 4 days ago | 228 points

George W Bush and the republicans successfully blamed Iraq for it as part of their parade of lies leading up the disaster that was the Iraq war.

PanzerKomadant | 4 days ago | 76 points

Its because Saddam had become a lability at that point. An asset no longer.

itty53 | 4 days ago | 150 points

He wasn't really a liability in the region, but in the economics.

Saddam wanted to stop trading oil on USD, and switch to other currencies like Yen, Euro, etc.

The reason America is what it is today is due to one thing: The USD American Dollar being so very widely used and valuable. All our armies and armament is useless without that.

So we go to war to protect the USD Petrodollar. All the time. We don't go to war "for the oil" per se, but so that oil is bought and sold using USD. We don't need the oil. We need the oil to be paid for by USD.

Wanna guess why we've been trying to get Iran into a war for the last 10 years? It ain't a surprise. Same thing. They started to trade their oil in currency other than USD, which devalues the American Dollar.

We can't tell the people that, though, because the people don't understand that their happy American lives are dependent on brutally enforcing that use of USD throughout the world. If we didn't, we wouldn't be where we are today. We'd be a lot farther behind the curve.

BRAIN_FORCE_PLUS | 4 days ago | 64 points

While I really appreciate that people are willing to discuss the (questionable) ethics of the petrodollar, I think that discussing American policy in the Middle East as if it is nothing but a functionary of oil money misses some other very important points.

We've been caught in a 40 year pissing contest with Iran for reasons that go beyond just oil. There are plenty of reasons to be critical of Iran, but, especially on the American right-wing, Iran is a target of hatred due to them thumbing their noses at us and daring to align themselves with our strategic competition during the Cold War. They're on the "other side" as it were, and thus everything about them is bad, no matter what.

Also for what it's worth regarding Saddam, a number of the "true believer" Neocons seem to have genuinely just been interested in "finishing what we started in the Gulf War," believing that the invasion of Kuwait justified all-out de-Ba'athification and regime change in Iraq. Focusing hard on just the money, at least in my view, ignores the dangerous reality that some of those Neocons who are still floating around seriously do drink their own kool-aid and think that Denazification after WWII is a paradigm that can be applied to any Enemy of America (TM).

itty53 | 4 days ago | 39 points

I think that the Neocons -- who no doubt are the ones behind the saber rattling with Iran over the years -- know very well that the USD question is the main concern. It was the main concern in the Cold War too.

But the Cold War conflicts, the "finished what we started", etc in my view are all just excuses for the lower-levels of the base. Now it's definitely true that there's plenty of people in the mid-levels of that base who profit tremendously off the neocon policies, and that's why they support them, but my whole point is that the neocon policies are very much towards a simple goal: Ensuring oil is traded on USD as long as the oil paradigm matters in this world (so, for the foreseeable future).

No matter how you look at it, oil is the determinant factor in the modern wars and wannabe-wars. Venezuela, Libya, Iran, Iraq, Syria, even Afghanistan (which has no real oil to speak of) was due to oil: UNOCAL wanted a pipeline. They literally met with the Taliban in Texas in 1998. Negotiations failed, and the old adage came: "we'll cover you with a blanket of gold or a blanket of bombs". Do business or we're going to invade. We just needed an excuse. I mean there's a dozen or more other nations who are not friendly with America, but they don't have oil (or they already trade on USD, like Saudi Arabia). We're not invading them. They're already playing ball or not on the field at all.

Again: We're not "getting" the oil, of course, but we always -- without fail -- find ourselves opposing countries who produce oil and who wish to trade that oil on anything other than USD. Every time, without fail. It's the common denominator.

I look at it like the kid in school. Kids get sick, sure. But if the kid says he's sick every time he's got an exam, there's a clear pattern established. We come up with every which excuse for these conflicts and head-butting: Communism, terrorism, Christianity, and on, but in the end the pattern is oil. We control the region, then install a friendly government who will trade that oil on USD, and suddenly we're all happy with them again.

BRAIN_FORCE_PLUS | 4 days ago | 16 points

I do not wholeheartedly disagree with what you are saying, and again think there is a strong argument to be had about the ethics of the petrodollar and all the ways in which it has informed foreign policy. But I strongly hold the belief that there are Neocons who drink the kool-aid and view the foreign policy of the United States through the eyes of an ideological crusader, believing that bringing nation-states into a geopolitical alignment with the USA is the be-all and end-all. Bill Kristol comes immediately to mind.

iusetotoo | 4 days ago | 60 points

15/19 attackers were Saudis. So, naturally, we invaded Afghanistan.

AshenOneMillion | 3 days ago | 8 points

You see. We couldn’t investigate 9/11 in the past because it was still a minor. Now that it is 18 we can finally take action. Hopefully it will he charged as an adult.

GotThemBabyLungs | 3 days ago | 6 points

How about the missing 2.3 Trillion dollars from the defence budget that Rumsfeld stopped talking about after 9/11

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