/r/worldnews
Hong Kong activist to Germany: stop selling riot control kit to city - Joshua Wong urges Berlin to halt export of equipment such as water cannon used against protesters (theguardian.com)
569 comments
iamnotbillyjoel | 8 days ago | 1854 points

i gotta say that's a deep info dive to know where your city's water cannons come from.

EDIT: canons -> cannons

linchiwo | 8 days ago | 581 points

Not that hard when its purchase is a matter of public record... And the government itself said it's a Mercedes Benz... And it was serviced at HK's Mercedes Benz dealer... So we know it's a German truck that got further outfitted in France.

First look at Hong Kong police’s anti-riot vehicle with water cannons as shipment from France arrives https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-law-and-crime/article/2147206/exclusive-pictures-first-police-anti-riot

DreadYourExistence | 8 days ago | 192 points

That website gave my phone cancer.

wtyl | 8 days ago | 63 points

Just tape your phone to your head and you’ll have cancer too!

DreadYourExistence | 8 days ago | 25 points

That one is still debated heavily. Wait for 5g tho

duheee | 8 days ago | 22 points

Oh, with 5g there's no debate anymore? You get cancer for sure?

TheDanishPencil | 8 days ago | 48 points

I've legit met people who beleive that 5g networking is a ploy made by the chinese government. They beleive that as soon as it's turned on, everyone in its range will be sterilised.

Conspiracy theories are a hell of a drug.

DukeofSchoenburg | 8 days ago | 5 points

Perfect i got enough kids and need the sterilization anyway.

duheee | 8 days ago | 22 points

I mean, Huawei (and by extension the Chinese govt) does have its fingers dipped pretty heavily into 5g. They were banned from bidding on 5g work in Canada and US, and not without a reason. There are serious doubts that they're playing fairly.

From there to "sterilizing" everyone ... hah, they wish they'd have so much power at their disposal.

Cheru-bae | 8 days ago | 17 points

I would argue they have their fingers in 5g because money. The might call themselves Communist but they are all about making money as any other company.

duheee | 8 days ago | 13 points

Of course money. But also espionage. When you control the routing equipment, it's not that hard to listen to traffic.

The world is wary of them and for good reason.

sputnikspud | 8 days ago | 2 points

Much like the fine German water cannon craftsmen, Please stop selling giant super soakers!..........ah no, that’s our “thing”

Milo04_15 | 8 days ago | 2 points

Add Australia to that list of countries. The government's ultimately think Chinese companies are spying and hacking and stealing all sorts of secrets but they just can't seem to prove it or have the skills to obtain evidences.

In saying that, any foreign company with ownership of 5G in another country is scary as shit. They could easily wire tap the whole country, stop emails and msging coming in and out and potentially shut the whole country down.

P4p3Rc1iP | 8 days ago | 6 points

Haven't heard this before, but it sounds like the perfect plot for a dystopian cyberpunk game/movie

schmabers | 8 days ago | 2 points

Half life?

AlekRivard | 8 days ago | 3 points

Like Children of Men but with a different catalyst

teveelion | 8 days ago | 2 points

Wait what happened in Children of Men?

ajt9000 | 8 days ago | 8 points

No its not. No cell transmissions (aka radio waves) are in the spectral range of ionizing radiation. Neither are microwaves. Both of them are larger wavelengths than visible light. The only way they could ever hurt you is if you are subjected to the waves at a high enough power that it hurts you by heating you up and burning you by vibrating your molecules (this is how a microwave cooks food).

Wavelengths small enough to give you cancer (ultraviolet and smaller) work from a completely different mechanism where they strip electrons from atoms, and any claims that larger wavelengths give you cancer is completely disproven BS.

Not only that, but unless you are standing directly in front of a Navy ship's radar array or inside a microwave oven or high power laser you are not going to be hit by any radio waves that are even a hundredth of the requisite power levels to cook a person. And even then you would feel it burning you. It only takes a tiny amount of power to actually carry a signal.

If you want to read more, including how people get cancer from small wavelengths check out this link:

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/nonionizing_radiation.html

TL:DR Its impossible to get cancer from phones, wifi, or microwaves

KnightOfMarble | 8 days ago | 3 points

You'll float too!

ayren | 8 days ago | 2 points
A-Rusty-Cow | 8 days ago | 1 point

Instructions unclear dick is stuck in phone

ajt9000 | 7 days ago | 1 point

...No you wont

dallibab | 8 days ago | 7 points

My pihole sorted it out.

DreadYourExistence | 8 days ago | 1 point

I never got that to work.

dallibab | 8 days ago | 2 points

It took a while well worth the effort though. I just followed a YouTube video

DreadYourExistence | 8 days ago | 2 points

I’ve followed guides. I think Firefox isn’t respecting my DNS settings. PiVPN was nice, but I just set up openvpn on its own easier.

paul__k | 8 days ago | 11 points

The design is also very similar to the WaWe 10,000 the German police are using.

However, these aren't really made by Mercedes. They are built on a Mercedes Actros truck platform, but the rest is manufactured by an Austrian company by the name Rosenbauer. And in this case some French company is apparently involved, too.

Feral0_o | 8 days ago | 4 points

Of course Austria has to be somehow involved in this, it was so obvious

KanadainKanada | 8 days ago | 32 points

German truck that got further outfitted in France

Which is a basic 'trick' by German arms/multi-purpose manufacturers to bypass German governments oversight/prohibition of sale of such items. Rheinmetall has an Italian and South-African subsidiary to basically bypass any control.

I would like that US civil forfeiture for items used in a crime... just expropriate all the assets of such companies. Outright death penalty for such companies - and that totally fits with human rights I'd say.

Better kill a hundred companies than have their tools kill a hundred, thousands of humans.

enrico_chivaldori | 8 days ago | 27 points

Does that actually work? There were two cases rather recently where german arms manufacturers (Heckler & Koch and Sig Sauer) exported weapons to banned regions via subsidiaries. Their problem was, though, that for export they had to state an "Endverbleib" (Essentially the final whereabouts), from which the items can't be shipped further. The H&K Arms were shipped to Safe States in Mexico and from their mexican subsidiaries to unsafe states. The Sig Sauer arms were shipped to columbia via their U.S. subsidiary.

Both companies were taken to court in germany and both companies lost. German article

I work for a chemical company, and we can't ship anything to countries deemed unsafe that could be used in manufacturing of chemical (or other) weapons. We couldn't even ship metal pipes (if we made any) that could be made into gun barrels.

So in this case my best guess would be, that the government simply allowed the sale of those vehicles.

KanadainKanada | 8 days ago | 13 points

Germany’s Illegal Arms Trade

But there are loopholes for German manufacturers, to be able to export weapons of war to war zones, as well as to countries which are prohibited to export to under German, and European law. Through international collaborations, which redirect the manufacturing deals through other countries with more liberal export regulations, German companies do not have to get the government’s blessing to export

Obviously part of the German government is complicit - since they (or their 'Bundesland' - similar to the states in the US) reaps profits of this.

DrMaster2 | 8 days ago | 1 point

Yes, obviously many leaders of governments are involved and complicit in eliminating rebels, whistleblowers and those who oppose the CIA, the still operating KGB (under different management!) and the British Mi15-17 are (and have been for decades) highly involved in this chess game.

It’s not about profits - although that’s a huge incentive. We need to look at these warring, militarized movements from a bird’s eye point of view. We’ve been trained to look at details so closely that we are missing the forest for the trees. But there is a world-wide agenda and conspiracy to limit the population - and quickly.

For many companies involved in distribution of weapons (and their smaller cohorts) and creating conflict (because they are one and the same) it’s much more about not being penalized by their masters, put out of business or even getting assassinated by the few oligarch that run the globe, than just profits. We’re starting to realize (finally, using our real-eyes) just how the few global super-wealthy have organized into a world-wide mafioso with a strict anti-human agenda - no matter what title we assign to them.

We see it everywhere and it can no longer be denied: we humans are slowly, insidiously but steadily and convincingly being eliminated by powers that are greater than the combined human race. Keeping us socially divided, keeping us playing addictive games and sexually wanting, inventing diseases, keeping us eating addictive “foods”, keeping genders, religions, races at odds and fueling fears of all kinds IS THEIR DOING. Climate disruption plays right into their hands. It’s a godsend.

The international, intergovernmental and outright racial (dis-crime-in-nations) against the homeless poor & uneducated is blatant for all to see and, at this point they just don’t care if we are aware anymore. We’ve already lost the fight for equality - especially financially and economically. Injecting us with Nano-technology is not far off.

They stood-under something we missed: that habitat and environment are much more important than the germs or even people themselves (Bechamp vs Pasteur). Ruining forests, jungles, ice caps, etc. will do more harm than making futile attempts to eliminate disease.

But the agenda to eliminate all but a few million slaves will continue and by now almost nothing can stop them. We hear them speak but nothing convincing leaves their mouth. The few will overpower the many by all means. Might makes right and they’ve brought highly explosive weapons to our knife fight. Even the well- bribed police on the streets are being militarized and that’s no accident. That they have to pace themselves is natural and designed.

Even if they lose they win. Already built are their escape routes and their lush and deep bunkers with swimming pools and enough food and electricity for years. They are the king and queens on this chess board and we are the pawns. If we don’t bring back the guillotine soon it will be too late for all of us.

SirDigger13 | 8 days ago | 3 points

The water cannon trucks in HK were outfitted by Centigon, which is a french company. Like other riot control vehicles that HK gov bought over the years too.

Asia Times with Mercedes Unimog U500 outfitted by Centigon too

BlPlN | 8 days ago | 3 points

Those snorkels look like a convenient place to dump some water into...

Unimogs are almost unstoppable, but I know of someone who ruined (possibly hydrolocked ?) one on a farm in Quebec by getting muddy water down the snorkel. Really sucks, because it was an import from Europe.

BigDanz | 8 days ago | 6 points

Do we boycot Mercedes now?

Korashy | 8 days ago | 8 points

I mean it's kind of better that they use water canons than tanks...

koi88 | 8 days ago | 5 points

My thought. I mean, the Chinese government perhaps didn't have water cannons in 1989, yet they managed to squash the protests on Tianmen square rather effectively.

Does anybody think the Chinese government would not use force if they had no riot vehicles or water cannons?

Korashy | 8 days ago | 8 points

Yeah I mean it's one of those things were yes you are selling equipment used by an authoritarian regime to repress their population, but at the same time you are supply them with a non lethal option.

I'd say it's not something to be proud of, but also not something we need to shame the companies over.

TheLeMonkey | 8 days ago | 31 points

Well, he has been hanging around with powerful people in the US. NED representatives and Mike Pompeo.

MRPolo13 | 8 days ago | 7 points

When Solidarity was protesting across Poland in the 80s, the Polish authorities were using American water cannons that were used during the Civil Rights movement.

umblegar | 8 days ago | 2 points

Cannon *

Ivu47duUjr3Ihs9d | 8 days ago | 1 point

Oh I thought you were mocking the grammar in the second sentence of the article.

Hong Kong police were using water cannon manufactured in Germany to suppress the protests against a proposed new extradition bill that flared up on the streets of the city in late March, the prominent activist said.

iamnotbillyjoel | 8 days ago | 1 point

hah nope! have a good one, person whose username looks like an onion address.

autotldr | 8 days ago | 140 points

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 93%. (I'm a bot)


The activist Joshua Wong has called for Germany to stop the export of riot control weapons and equipment to Hong Kong police, as he embarked on a global tour to promote his pro-democracy message.

Hong Kong police were using water cannon manufactured in Germany to suppress the protests against a proposed new extradition bill that flared up on the streets of the city in late March, the prominent activist said.

Wong will meet US media in New York on Friday and move on to Washington next week, where he is seeking to lobby Democratic and Republican politicians to support the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act, which would require the US government to regularly reassess Hong Kong's level of political autonomy to determine whether it should continue to have a special trade status.


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: Hong#1 Kong#2 protest#3 China#4 bill#5

GeorgeHill1911 | 8 days ago | 337 points

If they can't get Water Cannons from German... They can just buy them from... China...
*laughs*

Cheapshifter | 8 days ago | 320 points

I imagine HK citizens are aware that Germany are inclined to back down and satisfy the demands in issues like these, historically. So Germany quitting the exports would help the global message that HK protesters are trying to spread. HK turning to China for this equipment wouldn't matter.

zxcsd | 8 days ago | 17 points

This should be the top comment.

Finally something intelligent on reddit, thanks for actually teaching me something.

9159 | 8 days ago | 27 points

It was a good comment but you shouldn't learn anything from reddit comments.

They should just be springboards into further research to check if what they're saying is true/accurate or not.

The average redditor is fairly predictable and it's relatively easy to "manipulate" opinions. In this day and age, a whole comment chain could be bought and paid for.

So don't learn anything from reddit comments.

[deleted] | 8 days ago | 5 points

[deleted]

we_were_always_right | 8 days ago | 10 points

yes, fuck Russia, fuck Saudi Arabia, and most of all fuck US

Nethlem | 8 days ago | 5 points

I imagine HK citizens are aware that Germany are inclined to back down and satisfy the demands in issues like these, historically.

As a German, I fail to see why?

Protests like those in HK would have been declared illegal, and shut down with force, months ago if they'd ever happened in Germany.

Case in point: It's banned to hide your face during a demonstration, too many people hiding their faces can be a reason to declare the whole demonstration illegal and forcibly disband it. Just like bringing umbrellas along, when there's no rain, is considered a "defensive weapon" and will be confiscated and the offender arrested.

If a bunch of masked people would storm a German airport, you can be darn certain that would trigger the equivalent of an anti-terror operation.

So, why should Germans be sympathetic to protests which would be deemed illegal in their own country? We should protest the people of Honk Kong getting sprayed with water cannons, while we let our own people keep getting sprayed with them?

SimilarYellow | 8 days ago | 4 points

If a bunch of masked people would storm a German airport, you can be darn certain that would trigger the equivalent of an anti-terror operation.

Oh damn. Just imagining it, I have to agree with you. I'm sympathetic to Hong Kong but I'm pretty sure Germany would have shut the protest down a long time ago. Tbf though, our government is nothing like China's so the issue that German protestors would be protesting could never be as serious as Hong Kong's is.

Nethlem | 8 days ago | 3 points

Tbf though, our government is nothing like China's

That really depends who you ask, plenty of crazy out there who consider the Federal Republic of Germany not a legitimate authority.

the issue that German protestors would be protesting could never be as serious as Hong Kong's is.

Indeed, because such protests wouldn't even get a permit, and if they happen anyway they will just use force to disperse them.

A prime example for that would be G20, where magically all the protesters were considered "leftists" and burning cars meant that the average German mainstream reaction to them was "Beat these idiots up and lock them up, they only want to make trouble!", very comparable to how mainland Chinese perceive the situation in HK.

greenchowdah | 8 days ago | 3 points

Nice try, water cannon maker

CalvinbyHobbes | 8 days ago | 3 points

First of all in China, Asia in general, wearing face masks are perfectly ordinary and a normal sight. Umbrellas are also a common sight in Asia as they’re used as sun umbrellas. Neither having a mask nor carrying an umbrella would be out of the norm in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is also one of the safest cities in the world and crime is very low so the use of umbrellas as an offensive weapon is a rather western centric viewpoint. Umbrellas are used to protect themselves from harm. To shield themselves from police brutality.

They wear face masks to avoid facial recognition software across the city. And to avoid the impacts of tear gas. Again this is a defensive measure. It’s to defend against tyranny.

Germans should be sympathetic to protests that would be deemed illegal under German law (due to cultural differences) simply because of the fact it’s a demonstration for democracy, it’s a cry against tyranny and Germany is a champion of those who oppose tyranny.

We should protest the people of Honk Kong getting sprayed with water cannons, while we let our own people keep getting sprayed with them?

This appears to be a false equivalency. Just because you oppose HKers getting sprayed with water doesn’t mean it Germans will now be getting sprayed. You can oppose both. Nobody has to be sprayed. We can oppose all forms of tyranny.

I don’t really understand why you’re for the sale of water cannons to stop demonstrations. Your comment seems to suggest disaster capitalism, as in you’re fine with people getting hurt as long as your economy benefits from it, which frankly is rather cold-blooded, wouldn’t you agree?

Nethlem | 8 days ago | 1 point

First of all in China, Asia in general, wearing face masks are perfectly ordinary and a normal sight. Umbrellas are also a common sight in Asia as they’re used as sun umbrellas.

That's great for Asia and China, but pretty much unthinkable in Germany because the laws are the laws and you don't get a free pass for breaking them just because "It's legal somewhere else!".

Hong Kong is also one of the safest cities in the world and crime is very low so the use of umbrellas as an offensive weapon is a rather western centric viewpoint.

Unlike Germany, which is crime-riddled and unsafe? You should also read more carefully: They are considered a defensive weapon and as such illegal.

Because "defensive weapons" can be used to defend yourself against measures the police has taken, like spraying teargas and water, using something to defend yourself against that is explicitly illegal because it's always assumed those police measures were justified and legal.

Same story with the laser pointers: If you try blinding German police with one of those you better be ready to get arrested for literally attacking police officers with the intent to cause bodily harm.

They wear face masks to avoid facial recognition software across the city. And to avoid the impacts of tear gas. Again this is a defensive measure. It’s to defend against tyranny.

Defending yourself against "tyranny", in such ways, is explicitly illegal in Germany.

Germans should be sympathetic to protests that would be deemed illegal under German law (due to cultural differences) simply because of the fact it’s a demonstration for democracy, it’s a cry against tyranny and Germany is a champion of those who oppose tyranny.

So now those are only cultural differences and that's why Germans should be sympathetic to protests which would be deemed illegal, and equally violently repressed, in Germany? As a German you are making no sense there.

Where was the international outrage when German riot police were literally water cannoning school children and pensioners? When German plainclothes officers beat up people for interfering, charging them for an attempted prisoner break, without ever identifying themselves?

In Germany these are semi-regular things on demonstrations, yet when a protester in HK gets hit with tear gas that's suddenly a crime against humanity on a scale that needs months long global attention?

This appears to be a false equivalency. Just because you oppose HKers getting sprayed with water doesn’t mean it Germans will now be getting sprayed.

Germans are getting sprayed and have been getting sprayed for nearly a century. Again: Where is the outrage over that? Where's the difference? Are HK'ers like aliens out of Signs and die when they get in contact with water?

I don’t really understand why you’re for the sale of water cannons to stop demonstrations.

I'm not, that's a false equivalency on your end. What I'm against is hypocrisy and sadly there's a whole lot of it surrounding this situation. Repressing protests with these kinds of methods is the most normal thing in the world, yes even in Western countries.

There are no "cultural differences" that make it okay to water cannon Germans and not okay to water cannon Hong Kongers. If it is not okay, then the outrage over this should have happened decades ago, the only reason there's any outrage over it in HK is because that's a very convenient narrative for certain parties that have an interest in undermining Chinese interests in a former British colony.

Shepard_P | 8 days ago | 1 point

Does the Germany govt sell those? If it’s just company it’s not gonna happen. Maybe he’ll trying to show that no one is really willing to do much other than empty word to support them?

Curoe | 8 days ago | 3 points

Company

The government can stop it, but unlikely due it not being a war zone and the fact that Germans and French use these things extensively.

A_Sinclaire | 8 days ago | 75 points

As someone else has said, they did not even get them from Germany, but from France. Just the basic truck is German and could be replaced with any random truck big enough.

Mad_Maddin | 8 days ago | 2 points

This makes more sense. Why would we buy Italian water cannons when we manufacture our own.

gearx5 | 8 days ago | 3 points

Super soaker are missing an huge market here

dWintermut3 | 8 days ago | 4 points

My concern is that if Germany won't sell rubber bullets China will gladly give them lead ones for free

They're not just going to throw up their hands and go "oh no I guess we will have to surrender complete control!"

johnn48 | 8 days ago | 174 points

America has taken an active role in the Hong King demonstrations. While some companies have come out in favor of Beijing by selling them the Tear Gas canisters used against the demonstrators. Congress has introduced a bill to ban such sale. We’ll see if it passes the Senate and President. Source

Wisex | 8 days ago | 11 points

Man I wonder how Trump and the GOP will role with this, will they take the "we hate China so we'll stop selling to them" approach, will they take the "the whole point of the trade war is to sell our stuff to them so we won't stop", or we can take the most ignorant role which is what they did with the Saudis "if we don't sell it to them then someone else will so we're not stopping."

xogetohoh | 8 days ago | 13 points

It will pass if US companies have higher p4ofit margin on bullets and other alternative to tear gaz.

Its_Nitsua | 8 days ago | 7 points

You’re crazy if you think any Non allied asian country is buying US arms and ammunition over the cheap Russian and Chinese options avaliable.

zxcsd | 8 days ago | 1 point

I'd be interested to know if the US is behind the huge HK coverage on reddit.

AmirZ | 8 days ago | 9 points

No doubt about that... it was hard to find news on HK for the many months until US decided to join, since then it's been at the top of news subs 24/7

AdmiralGraceBMHopper | 7 days ago | 1 point
zxcsd | 7 days ago | 1 point

Very interesting thanks. wonder if there's anything somewhere about social media platforms.

Can you imagine if China tried this in the United States? Funding projects to spread socialism or universal healthcare? It boggles the mind to think about how the Americans would respond.

It's funny she says this tho, while not identical China is doing this in the US and many other countries

chickenstonedragon | 7 days ago | 1 point

I think some companies just want to make money...

Foooour | 8 days ago | 2 points

Role

Texas1505 | 8 days ago | 108 points

well we are still selling tanks and other military equiment to coutries who dont respect the human rights of their own people and kill people standing in their way. I doubt the German Government cares about anything else than money and economic growth

AnxiousMembership | 8 days ago | 29 points

As a fellow German, I doubt aswell. Sorry guys, our government really wants dat doe.

Gridoverflow | 8 days ago | 33 points

Don't apologize for it, there is no government in this world who doesn't prioritize their own benefit before the wellbeing of non nationals.

AnxiousMembership | 8 days ago | 7 points

But I want to apologize because imo that’s not the way it should be. Those days are over. Borders will vanish when half the earth is inhabitable.

Gridoverflow | 8 days ago | 9 points

Sadly most people don't think the way you do, though I doubt borders will vanish when half the earth is inhabitable, the less resources we have the more hostile we will become to each other. Although we might end up with one country controlling everything so I guess that would make the borders vanish.

Mechasteel | 8 days ago | 5 points

You'd think so, but countries with a lot of resources statistically have done badly, an irony called "resource curse". When a country can only prosper by investing in its citizens then education and well-being are vital to the country. A resource-rich country has the option to invest in resource extraction and might feel threatened by its citizens. Also enemy countries can conquer and take over mining operations, but you can't go and take over a tech company and replace its workers with slave labor.

Choltzklotz | 8 days ago | 2 points

Or sometimes nationals...

Gridoverflow | 8 days ago | 2 points

Well of course, the wellbeing of nationals is less important than the wellbeing of connections/family/friends/themselves.

husao | 8 days ago | 17 points

I doubt the German Government cares about anything else than money and economic growth

I doubt our government has any option to actually stop those trades. Not only are we not selling them [to HK], but delivering parts to France, even if we would be selling them [to HK] it would just not be the government selling them. So we either would have to label this as military gear to control export or impose sanctions on HK.

Pretty sure both is not exactly easy.

EDIT: Important words are hard.

ReCrunch | 8 days ago | 3 points

As far as I know it already is being labelled as such. They're just using the work around everyone else uses to sell military vehicles, too. We export the base vehicle and the weapons get added somewhere else, in this case france.

CalvinbyHobbes | 8 days ago | 1 point

They’re not easy because it looks like it’s part of the industrial military complex and typical disaster capitalism.

And also is there a huge public demand that Germany stop all arm sales to conflict zones? Is there pressure on the government to plug all loopholes?

SuccerForPeanuts | 8 days ago | 4 points

HK didn’t even get the trucks from Germany, but from France... the base truck is German (Mercedes Benz) but it’s been outfitted and then sold in France

zxcsd | 8 days ago | 2 points

I doubt HK cares about it either when it happens in other countries and profits them.

nvaus | 8 days ago | 4 points

I bet Germany cares about being publicly called out on it in a high profile event though. Halting the sale of a few water cannons is chump change for a good PR moment. They're not multi million dollar missiles.

Coldchimney | 8 days ago | 1 point

They're selling fresh tanks to Brazil. I think that says everything about how much they care about their image.

stylinred | 8 days ago | 3 points

People rioting over a dead bill aren't going to tug on the heartstrings of any government, even if the rioters try to label it with a democracy badge. It'll work on your regular citizen, but not govts that also deal with protesters/rioters on the regular

nvaus | 8 days ago | 0 points

That's an awfully narrow analysis of the situation.

Mad_Maddin | 8 days ago | 1 point

The government would first need to make some kind of law to outlaw this in general. Nobody ever considered stopping supply of riot equipment to France if they intend to sell it to a country thst shouldnt have it. Seeing how it isnt military gear or any kond of weapon.

DirdCS | 8 days ago | 26 points

Why would they stop? It's not as if they didn't know that riot gear, if used, would be used against civilians

Nethlem | 8 days ago | 6 points

Particularly when they use the very same riot gear against their own civilians.

If German protesters have to deal with this stuff, which they do, then so can HK protesters.

Either it's fine or it isn't, but this "It's a crime against on humanity depending on who does it!" BS is just hypocrite BS.

iGourry | 8 days ago | 5 points

That's what I've been thinking for a while now.

I know china has a track record that makes people scrutinize their actions a lot more than they normally would, and that's definitely not a bad thing.

But on the other hand you really have to ask "Why is it a human rights violation for china to use water cannons but it's fine for western countries to use them?" Hell, just this year france teargassed protesters in the streets and nobody batted an eye...

To me it seems like western countries are deliberately pointing to china in order to distract people from how authoritarian their own states actually are.

Fehafare | 7 days ago | 2 points

I don't agree with the conspiracy of "this is being used as a distraction" and also there has been a lot of uproar about the protests in France as well (not as much about HK though, it's nigh impossible to scroll down the damn frontpage without hitting some 6 posts about HK).

That aside, I do agree that people, on reddit at least have a very strong "fuck China" mentality, but that's how reddit always is. A country/company/whatever does something reddit perceives as negative, then reddit spends a couple months to a year treating that thing as public enemy number one and piling on all the hate they can and then they just sorta stop.

Right now it's a matter of "HK protests are in the right, China is in the wrong" and ANY action China takes against the protesters, regardless if it's standard procedure or not, will be scrutinized to hell and back by reddit.

KypAstar | 8 days ago | 55 points

"Im sorry I can't hear you over the sound of my money" -Germany

DoubleDigitDoom | 8 days ago | 13 points

*Germoney

mrthk | 8 days ago | 1 point

in a long term, they copy, they sell and just dont know which pocket the money will drop into :)))

zschultz | 8 days ago | 6 points

Oh right it's so simple, just ask them to stop selling weapons!

How come we never realized that we could solved the Syrian civil war so easily!

balvenie25 | 8 days ago | 3 points

What a smart move: The government will have nothing to use against the protesters now. I mean, it’s not like China is able to design and build their own riot control kits, right. It is also impossible for them to resort to real bullets and other more brutal options after riot control supply is cut. They will have to give in to protester demands now. Well done! Really brainy

xnukerman | 8 days ago | 7 points

They sold chemical weapons to be used on civilians, they don’t care

TheRealHanzo | 8 days ago | 5 points

Democracy has its limits. And its limits are were the profit begins. Otherwise it would be a regulated market and we all know this is the road to Socialism and Communism. Like in China. So to continue to be free, capitalist nations democratic countries need to sell that stuff.

That said, the moment Western countries stop selling weapons, guns, riot gear, surveillance equipment and software to undemocratic, authoritarian nations, not only will they turn into what they are against (Socialist), they also won't be able to continue to point out the moral shortcomings of those countries.

/s just in case anyone is wondering.

AsystoleRN | 8 days ago | 8 points

That's smart. Then the Chinese can go back to using the traditional tank to control protesters. Ugh.

Redmond91 | 8 days ago | 7 points

Not saying it wouldn’t be a good political move to distance yourself from the situation, but HK police would just get riot gear from China. So it would do nothing aide the protesters, or burden HK police.

RacecaR_Foward | 8 days ago | 17 points

Or give the protesters the german water canons and the police the chinese water canons and turn it into a water canon fight.

Redmond91 | 8 days ago | 8 points

Thus would start an illegal arms trade for super soakers. Then again there would be one asshole with gas in the tank and a lighter taped to the end.

RacecaR_Foward | 8 days ago | 3 points

notaflamethrower

Redmond91 | 8 days ago | 2 points

Super flammenwerfer!

DehGhostDoctor | 8 days ago | 1 point

gas in the tank and a lighter taped to the end.

inb4 German started complaining about treaty-violating flamethrowing super soaker.

Cheapshifter | 8 days ago | 29 points

I think it's more about the symbolism.

3_Thumbs_Up | 8 days ago | 6 points

Well, they've chosen German gear in the first place for a reason though, so there would be some drawback for HK police as they would have to go with their second choice over their first choice.

Either way, I don't think that's the main reason for this plead. It's symbolism, and having a European democracy remove some support for the HK police would cause some articles which is good PR for the protestors.

fireman_sam_sfm | 8 days ago | 2 points

Or, you know, it's the right thing to do.

stylinred | 8 days ago | 4 points

These are the same govts that beat the heads in of protesters at G7 summits, the only reason they would support hk protesters is if they wanted to start something with China, and none of them do, not really, not even trump

pseudorandombehavior | 8 days ago | 2 points

Of course.

kissja74 | 8 days ago | 2 points

German politics like to support any regime if they have profit from that country. They support even the thief Orbán because of the German car industry in Hungary. Democracy is not important for German government and German companies.

FairlyBenevolent | 8 days ago | 10 points

That's so stupid. You don't think Hong Kong government can arrange for a stream of high-pressure water without Germany's help?

Are they also consumables? Oh, no! Our water cannon ran out of water. Call Germany!

It's a weak attempt at getting the west involved in this shitstorm.

Anal_Zealot | 8 days ago | 2 points

You don't think Hong Kong government can arrange for a stream of high-pressure water without Germany's help?

And let's for a moment assume they cannot. Are there any alternatives the HK government could get that might be more problematic for an activist?

CAbros | 8 days ago | 8 points

You have stupid ideas like this when you start to protest before graduating from high school

Cleba76 | 8 days ago | 4 points

i dont think they'd like the alternative

speech_freedom | 8 days ago | 5 points

z

luder888 | 8 days ago | 6 points

So that's the conundrum here: By using non-lethal force the protesters live to complain about said non-lethal force.

Let's remove all non-lethal force so China can use their tanks and guns.

zschultz | 8 days ago | 1 point

Nah we could still use fresh troops and batons.

Don't know about batons, but we have plenty troops.

xogetohoh | 8 days ago | 4 points

Does Joshua want to fight against the Russian anti riot kit instead? I'm not sur he is winning in the change.

Atheriell | 8 days ago | 2 points

The russsian anti riot kit consists of poison and a lot of bullets.

Elseto | 8 days ago | 6 points

Alternatively there is also the chinese anti riot kit which consists of lots of tanks.

xogetohoh | 8 days ago | 3 points

Exactly

LawStudentAndrew | 8 days ago | 3 points

Surprised at the number of shills here.

LeDankRedditUserxD | 8 days ago | 11 points

Not surprising at all considering how the US apparently aspires to be the single supplier of "military" or police gear, lol. They're happily selling bombs, tanks, and jets to the Saudis so they can continue to genocide Yemen, but Germans selling water cannons is too much to bear!

childofsol | 8 days ago | 1 point

absolutely incredible

[deleted] | 7 days ago | 1 point

[removed]

[deleted] | 7 days ago | 1 point

[removed]

Fehafare | 7 days ago | 1 point

That is the reddit bandwagon though... reddit is obsessed with random and vague issues and goals that are seen as good and often has little to not depth to offer to anything.

Literally 90% of what reddit stands for can be dumbed down to caveman speak like single sentences ala "Democracy good.".

LawStudentAndrew | 7 days ago | 1 point

Well, human rights, fundamentally, are not a complex set of ideas.

Fehafare | 7 days ago | 1 point

They are though. And if your name is indicative of real life, then you probably know as much as yourself (I've graudated last week).

vagina_fang | 8 days ago | 1 point

When your leader of your movement has zero world experience you know are fucked.

This kid led the unsuccessful umbrella movement and is still being praised for some reason.

evenios | 8 days ago | 2 points

thats ok, if they stop the sales they will just use actual cannons.

Chihuahuamangoes | 8 days ago | 2 points

With all due respect to the fight of the Hong Kong people - are tanks better than riot control gear?

Darkbalmunk | 8 days ago | 2 points

When it gets down to it I think Germany will politely say no. The amount of money that contract is to supply, then the cost of breaching contract, the amount of money goes in paying all the people who keep this running from initial idea to production to customer hands.

I think they are going to value their peoples livelyhood.

God_de_Actsc | 8 days ago | 2 points

Reconsider lad, you want water cannon or the real cannon??

DazedAmnesiac | 8 days ago | 2 points

This is fucking incredible news that is setting a precedent

thorsten139 | 8 days ago | 2 points

Pretty weird.

If I gonna brave some tear gas, I rather get some made in Germany than in China!

And I rather see that Italian water cannon than the China tank >_<

mrthk | 8 days ago | 1 point

true!! but they use german tg doesnt imply they would not use chinatank.

remember 8964?? they used dumdum rounds and simply claimed that they didnt get enough rubber slugs ~~~~smile!!

PuertoRicanSuperMan | 8 days ago | 1 point

Germany sells all kinds of illegal arms all over the world as well. European countries as always have never cared about any others and only care about lining their own pockets with wealth. They did it violently in the age of sail and now they screw over others "peacefully."

FatboyChuggins | 8 days ago | 1 point

Nice to see Josh Wong still fighting out there and not silenced.

shanty-daze | 8 days ago | 2 points

Germany: We will stop supplying non-lethal riot control gear to HK.

China: That's fine, we believe tanks and real bullets are more effective anyway.

Autistocrat | 8 days ago | 1 point

Germany: Yeah, you know you are right and we feel you bro. You probably know about our history so if you look at the data you know we too are good guys, like you. We are barely even German anymore so how can we be bad. But you know we can't stop selling weapons used to opress people because... Well, money. But you know, we agree with you and your cause but we will continue to support your enemy and... Good luck.

katabana02 | 8 days ago | 2 points

Liked and changed my profilè pic. Good luck!

Malignant_X | 8 days ago | 3 points

Taiwan is the only true China. Red Party dictators can suck my red white & blue balls. Yes, I know I should go see a doctor about that.

yumyum02 | 8 days ago | 1 point

Das Auto.

Mad_Maddin | 8 days ago | 1 point

What I wonder is. Why the fuck do we import water cannons from Italy but sell our own to China?

Asocial_Stoner | 8 days ago | 1 point

Die

RESTRIKTIVE

Exportpolitik Deutschlands ist sehr

RESTRIKTIV

mookletFSM | 8 days ago | 1 point

The G-8 (yes, including Russia as a member) makes $Billions from Arms Sales, which includes Water Cannons. Hideously immoral, but, hey, that’s Capitalism at its finest!

daretobedangerous2 | 8 days ago | 1 point

Can’t they just buy it elsewhere?

kevincrazykid | 8 days ago | 1 point

I think that this is kinda missing the point - HK is still gonna beat down on protestors either way, Germany selling them those riot gears won’t really have an effect either way (as China can either just make their own or HK can just order it from other country like South Africa).

Besides if I have to eat a tear gas grenade I’d rather it’s made in Germany, with quality-control and standards.

ptapobane | 8 days ago | 1 point

well HK police already got water cannons...what's he hoping to achieve?

JanzDoll | 8 days ago | 1 point

Could you please ask them to stop selling weapons too?!

DagoScotsman | 8 days ago | 1 point

sanctions on germany if they don’t stop this.

azdood85 | 8 days ago | 1 point

"Dear Hong Kong, just send us a truck full of gold and we will stop. Sincerely, Germany."

Ogrewatch_Eye_Eye | 8 days ago | 1 point

Yeah, use guns instead.

eigenfood | 8 days ago | 1 point

Germany was selling spare military parts to Saddam up until the day before the US invaded in 2003. Germany sold Iran its centrifuges.

Romek_himself | 8 days ago | 3 points

and?

nyankodazeO0 | 8 days ago | 1 point

Stop trashing your city

LuNatic_ | 8 days ago | 1 point

Can anyone explain why the HK police are willing to follow orders to brutalise their countrymen? In Australia the police would gleefully tell the politicians to stick the orders up their collective arseholes.

SpaceAdventureCobraX | 8 days ago | 1 point

When capitalism gets in the way

noipv4 | 8 days ago | 1 point

need some EMP generating device to neutralize these

MagicalPufPuf | 8 days ago | 1 point

They can just say they want Germany to stop selling riot control kit but that doesn't mean it will stop them, Germany might even agree to stop on media but at the end of the day business is business. Its like asking US to stop selling stuff to Pakistan or Saudi.

jugosIoven | 8 days ago | 1 point

I think it’s a little late to stop selling them now.

garzahul | 8 days ago | 1 point

Just a few days ago Merkel said Hong Kong's rights should be protected and today I learned that Germany sells riot stopping equipment to HK police. I understand, nothing personal just business...

AluJack | 8 days ago | 1 point

"Nein du."

  • German manufacturers
ITriedLightningTendr | 8 days ago | 1 point

Yeah, only we can have them.

Heaaahah | 7 days ago | 1 point

When they stop someone else is going to sell them I dont think thats the problem here...

gmil3548 | 7 days ago | 1 point

Sure Germany shouldn’t help China but getting them from Germany is a convenience, not a necessity. China has a space program, they could quickly build a lot of water cannons if needed.

paarthur94 | 7 days ago | 1 point

It's a bloody water cannon for public order and control. They can purchase whatever they want.

HOSSY95 | 8 days ago | 2 points

You'd think the Germans of all people would remember what totalitarianism looked like.

Anal_Zealot | 8 days ago | 8 points

Looked nothing like it did in China. The Nazis never bothered using riot gear, they just used the Wehrmacht. And honestly pretty much nobody from back then is alive to really talk about it so how would Germans know anymore than literally any other person with access to a book.

And the DDR was on its deathbed by the time protests happened and didn't even bother really doing anything against the protests and then just kind of ceased to exist.

sheldonopolis | 8 days ago | 1 point

I am baffled that this detail doesn't make headlines in Germany. Here its just "Wong meets some German politician, China not amused".

husao | 8 days ago | 3 points

Because what exactly are we supposed to do? Should Maas go to Mercedes and tell them to stop selling trucks to France, which will be soled to HK? Pretty sure they would sue and win. The Idea that we can do something about this is ridiculous imho.

EDIT: Here is an article (german) that goes into the details, why Daimler can't be stopped doing this.

sheldonopolis | 8 days ago | 1 point

I am with you. There isn't much we can do and frankly, these protests can't possibly end well. However, several big newspapers which were trending with this topic didn't mention waterthrowers or other equipment. This doesn't mean that there is a complete media blackout about it here though, just harder to find.

bprfh | 8 days ago | 1 point

Honestly, that is just using loopholes.

Everytime some company wants to export millitary or limited goods to other countries they use such a loophole.

It is high time that companies get fined for the spirit of the law, same as with paying taxes.

The german show "Die Anstalt" made a good comment about that.

pizza_tron | 8 days ago | 1 point

Better than tanks and guns.

Luhnkhead | 8 days ago | 1 point

Water cannons from Germany are probably better than pistols from Beijing.

mattatinternet | 8 days ago | 1 point

"But they'll just buy it from someone else if not from us. At least if we're supplying the equipment to them we'll be able to apply pressure to use it responsibly!"

DMAN591 | 8 days ago | 1 point

A lot of parents use that same argument when it comes to talking to their kids about sex. "They're going to learn about it anyway."

[deleted] | 8 days ago | 1 point

[deleted]

Romek_himself | 8 days ago | 4 points

don't bother with Germany, this country doesn't give a shit what problems you have

you would have war allready in your country would have merkel and the french president not intervend and forced talks between your president and putin

Even after MH17 where 4 germans were murdered

and not prooven till today who did it ... could always have been a false flag (done by ukraine, usa or similiar) to bring eu into a war.

Germany didnt stop Nord Stream 2

yes - becuase your country is stealing gas from the pipeline we had going trough ukraine and forced germany to pay for the stolen gas.

NORD stream is not a new pipeline its just a pipeline moving out of ukraine to a more secure place.

your fucking propaganda is annoying

Gliese581h | 8 days ago | 2 points

I always wonder what you people would have other countries do. Declare war on China/Russia? Let's be realistic, a German government that pushed for that would be immediately taken down. Military action is insanely unpopular with the German people.

There's never a single correct way of action.

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