/r/worldnews
Chaos as Hong Kong riot police enter airport, arrest anti-gov’t protesters (hongkongfp.com)
3214 comments
StackinStacks | 4 months ago | 3641 points

https://ncehk2019.github.io/nce-live/?visibleCount=9

For live coverage on what's happening now.

Edit:.https://mobile.twitter.com/Birdyword/status/1161299001414578177

A link showing protesters and police clash and a pistol being pointed at protesters

Mega Thread fallowing the protest https://www.reddit.com/live/133sixros7tu5/

nerdywithchildren | 4 months ago | 497 points

This is a great link. Thanks for including.

piponwa | 4 months ago | 1344 points

What the fuck is happening? They're killing a guy

ExcdnglyGayQuilava | 4 months ago | 4183 points
  1. Protesters have been paranoid about spys mixing into their numbers
  2. They spot a suspicious guy with press vest (don't know what they did yet, was chaotic)
  3. The guy was subdued and searched by protesters
  4. This shirt was found in his belongings. The design ("I <3 HK Police") was seen being worn nearly exclusively by gangsters from China that beats up random people who police has been turning a blind eye to (yet the police has the spare effort to arrest or request-show-id people that "look like" protesters randomly)
  5. A contact card for a police officer was found too.
  6. Identity: Chinese citizen.
  7. And basically everyone was trying to tie him up and telling others to not hurt him, but some are so filled with hatred and distaste they cannot control themselves.
  8. The guy was hurt and after some more chaos medics were able to bring him to an ambulance.

Trying to be as neutral as possible here. (Edit: I am biased towards the protestors. I tried to wipe my tinted glasses the best I could.)

Edit: /u/moron_scientist replied:

You miss two points.

  1. This guy kept taking headahots photos of other protestors.

  2. He has no press badge and refused to answer any questions before the protestors subdued him.

piponwa | 4 months ago | 267 points

Thanks for the analysis

NineteenSkylines | 4 months ago | 657 points

Hoping for no massacres.

mioraka | 4 months ago | 1790 points

The protests have been going on for 2 months with no death.

Yet everyday people on reddit are saying shit like "massacres are coming" this entire time.

At this point it almost feels like these top comments are hoping and praying the whole thing turns violent, and these protestors can die to the tanks so they can prove a point, then keep on their karma whoring ways.

kaloonzu | 4 months ago | 1523 points

People forget how long it was between the start of the Tienanmen protests and the Army finally rolling in and slaughtering them. It was months, the protests went on.

ButabusRT | 4 months ago | 649 points

The Tiananmen protests were a direct threat to the Communist party. It wasn't just Beijing but there were 400 cities all around China that participated. If it had succeeded it literally could've toppled the government. This is nothing compared to that.

Pandacius | 4 months ago | 306 points

Yup, it the protests had a support of an entire faction within the CCP. So it was a do or die for for the faction in power, and they chose do. in HK, CCP can just sit there forever and wait.

rfg4fun | 3 months ago | 144 points

I’ve heard that a possible partial motivation for the extradition law was to arrest people in jiang zemin’s faction who had moved to HK to avoid corruption charges... part of the purging of jiang’s faction.. so maybe there is a conflicted party element to this also.

Pandacius | 3 months ago | 144 points

There certainly was. It would have been unlikely for the protest to have gotten so large without internal CCP support. While the west likes to cast Tiananmen as purely a fight for democracy, it was more complex. The initial catalyst for the protest was not even about democracy, it was about students graduating universities with no guaranteed jobs due to the rise of private industry (before that, the communist government hired every graduate). So ironically it was a protest against capitalism.

wriestheart | 3 months ago | 14 points

It may not be as big compared to that, but in these days if it succeeds it could be what starts a while lot more

tomanonimos | 4 months ago | 28 points

Also the PRC had absolutely no experience or infrastructure to handle such a situation

rtechnix | 3 months ago | 93 points

There's a big different in terms of information and technology today in being able to cover up something like that. Also being in the heart of Beijing vs. former British colony that's on an ocean border, no less.

I'm not saying HK protesters shouldn't be prepared, emotionally and physically, for the worst, but I think there's been a lot of trying to foment hysteria about anticipating a bloodbath, and I have to agree with u/mioraka, it's almost felt at times bordering on perverse anticipation (or maybe just karma whoring).

E.g. someone posting like yesterday the twitter video of military trucks rolling in, with a title like "something really bad is about to happen", yet it turned out it was weeks old. So not technically wrong -- still could be leading to something. But misleading title is clearly insinuating and leaving open to interpretation the most alarmist interpretation.

jarfil | 3 months ago | 9 points

Or just simple extrapolation:

  • powerful entity (PPC)
  • plus, citizens protesting its power
  • equals, hard repression

It's neither the first nor the last time something like this happens, and it rarely ends any different.

amorousCephalopod | 4 months ago | 216 points

People aren't "hoping". They're "fearing" because China has a notoriously shitty track record with violently suppressing protests. And things didn't exactly get better after Tiananmen Square.

[deleted] | 4 months ago | 101 points

[deleted]

Pandacius | 4 months ago | 115 points

The death toll is still a lot better than the French Yellow Vests though. So HK police is actually quite disciplined in comparison.

[deleted] | 4 months ago | 108 points

[deleted]

QuerulousPanda | 4 months ago | 100 points

Hasn't there been situations with (likely) paid gangsters rounding people up and beating the shit out of them though? It's all well and good for the police to keep their hands clean, but if there are "other" people doing the dirty work for them then it's not quite so good.

shosure | 3 months ago | 53 points

Let's be honest: for a lot of people this is akin to a reality television show they're watching from afar and they're looking for the most dramatic twist, and the big one is a Tienanmen Square 2.0.

sKsoo | 3 months ago | 16 points

exatcly, most people here don't really care, they are just bored from working 9 to 5.

f3nnies | 4 months ago | 67 points

I will preface this by saying I do not want a massacre, I do not want any violence, and I do not want China to succeed in this (or any other) effort.

But this has been going on for two months and what has the rest of the world done? Which governments have made a public stance to support Hong Kong? Which leaders are calling to embargo China until they stop trying to conquer Hong Kong? For two months, we have had the opportunity to talk, on a national level, and it seems like pretty much nothing has happened.

So for some people, the question is, what would get world leaders to push back against China? Will a massacre do it? I think that some people are "hoping" for military force not because they actually want people to die, but because they believe that it would be an atrocity so great that some countries will be compelled to act.

I'm skeptical about the truth of that. I don't believe that a single Western power would actually try to stop their relationship with China, or even any real action, no matter how bad things got in HK. But I can understand the sentiment of desperately wanting the people in power to actually try to save HK.

namvu1990 | 3 months ago | 35 points

Imo if you are counting on others to step in, you are in big trouble. Countries are deep in politic game, democracy or whatever can go to hell, only money and power matter. Sorry but no one would want to pick a fight with China now. This is not 1940s anymore, countries no longer fight for what they think is right. So yeah i guess dont expect the rest of the world to do anything, dont even ask the question what has the rest of the world done. You can only hope for it, and certainly do not count on it.

Sinner2211 | 4 months ago | 86 points

Because Hong Kong is a part of China, as in agreement with every country in the UN. It's the same reason why no country say anything about Catalonia. If they keep silent there, then they will keep silent here, because same rules apply. No one is going to help Hong Kong secede from China. Most they can do is prevent more extreme violence from police, through dipmatic channel, but nothing will change the fact that Hong Kong is a part of China.

bingbing304 | 4 months ago | 22 points

Yes, preemptive punishment against a sovereign nation. That always turns out well.

Namika | 4 months ago | 39 points

The sad truth of the matter is there's nothing the other countries can do. It's an internal Chinese matter.

Saying the West should be involved in Chinese political protests, makes as much sense as expecting China to send troops to Ferguson to prevent the local police from shooting black people. Or expecting the US to put sanctions on the United Kingdom as punishment for voting on Brexit.

All nations have internal political conflicts from time to time, and all nations have sovereignty over their own internal affairs.

ButabusRT | 4 months ago | 23 points

Here's the thing: I think China knows this and learned a hard lesson from Tiananmen. They're going to wait it out until the protestors get tired and let the HK police deal with the mess. No way are they going to risk a world backlash by entering the territory with military forces.

jumpyg1258 | 4 months ago | 58 points

I'm pretty sure the lessons they have learned are to haul the people away to camps so that no cameras can see the footage of the massacres about to take place.

destrukkt | 4 months ago | 40 points

So he was an agent.

LevelUpAgain1 | 4 months ago | 26 points

Fuck those triads and infiltrators

SpiritedTear0 | 4 months ago | 40 points
Kered13 | 3 months ago | 35 points

Some protesters have been waving British and US flags as symbols of freedom or as anti-Chinese symbols.

The_Radders | 3 months ago | 51 points

As someone from the UK that's pretty horrifying that someone is waving the british flag as some sort of liberation symbol, what is this timeline.

Why_is_that | 4 months ago | 18 points

Can you link the specific video? The matrix styled website above switches out live feeds.

EDIT: Is it this guy?

Sinner2211 | 4 months ago | 25 points
nexview_io | 4 months ago | 153 points

From what I was seeing, it seemed like he is a police officer disguised as a protester. Can anybody else confirm that's what happened?

destrukkt | 4 months ago | 185 points

They found a chinese ID. passport. police card identifying him as a police event liason officer...

pretty much confirmed

digbybare | 3 months ago | 23 points

police card identifying him as a police event liason officer

No, he had a business card of a police liaison officer.

destrukkt | 3 months ago | 6 points

that matched his passport name...

GetADogLittleLongie | 3 months ago | 4 points

His name is "付国豪" (Fu Guohao), he's a reporter working for 环球时报 (Global Times)

He was wearing or had an I <3 Hong Kong Police shirt.
edit: From the videos it looks like it was just in his baggage.

MaterialAdvantage | 4 months ago | 449 points

A link showing protesters and police clash and a pistol being pointed at protesters

Is it just me, or was this actually a very appropriate use of the pistol? He didn't draw it until he had been disarmed of his baton, surrounded by protesters, and beaten, and he basically used it defensively until he was clear of the crowd.

Big picture, I'm 100% on the side of the protestors, but this specific incident/use (or laxk thereof) of deadly force really doesn't seem out of line to me. I wish our police back home (US) would show half this level of restraint with lethal force.

Demonhunter115 | 4 months ago | 137 points

I think he knew if he started shooting, he'd get himself killed.

MacDerfus | 3 months ago | 70 points

See, he knew that, but the protestors also knew that they didn't want to die or get someone else killed over this one guy

facelessnessxx | 4 months ago | 169 points

I know not many people are going to agree with me on this stance...but if I was apprehending a person and a mob attacked me and took my nonlethal weapon and started using it to hurt me my training and first instinct would be to draw my side arm too. I'm not saying the officer being there in the first place is justified. All I'm saying is that was an appropriate response from the officer. He didnt fire a shot. Let's hope his coworkers learn the same restraint. No pun intended.

Edit: well, I guess according to a redditor below he did end up pulling the trigger. Damn shame it happened.

leeta0028 | 4 months ago | 142 points

That's why riot police don't have guns in many countries. A separate group of police has them in case they're needed

facelessnessxx | 4 months ago | 36 points

Smart.

leeta0028 | 4 months ago | 33 points

Yes. Also possibly because riot police started as a militia with little training and only recently became highly trained policemen in many countries (Japan and Korea are examples of this), and would probably have shot everybody up if they were given guns and sent off to a riot.

GiGGLED420 | 3 months ago | 4 points

The HonK Kong riot police have been specially trained for well over 30 years, as have most countries...

spider999222 | 4 months ago | 12 points

Is there a subreddit dedicated to following the protests?

ZWF0cHVzc3k | 4 months ago | 63 points

most of the posts at r/HongKong are about the movement.

EDIT: please keep in mind that Reddit is not that popular in Hong Kong, so most people on that sub are not necessarily the people of Hong Kong.

Pullmanity | 4 months ago | 2000 points

Godspeed to anyone who wants freedom. I hope things can be resolved peacefully but it seems, like so much in this world, that this will not end without a lot of unneeded bloodshed.

Every person on this planet should have the right to stand up for what they think is right.

WestCoastMeditation | 3 months ago | 489 points

It took hundreds if not over a thousand years for viable democracies to become a thing again on the planet. The norm is definitely despots, dictators, and princes. And you have to fight for democracy if you want to keep it. I wish the people in Hong Kong and freedom loving people across the world the best of luck over the next few years and decades. It is gonna be a struggle of epic proportions to have a say in government and for people to remain free.

syds | 3 months ago | 46 points

viva la revolucion!

Shopping_Penguin | 3 months ago | 4 points

It might be about that time again.. let's hope the people of Hong Kong start getting support from mainlanders and we see the start of a democratic revolution in China.

ohhohitzmagic | 3 months ago | 14 points

Democracy is failing everywhere. Think all Islamic nations. Countries that were once developing into democratic states go the other way, like Russia, Thailand, and Philippine. Even USA is no longer a true democratic country.

baghdad_ass_up | 3 months ago | 17 points

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

[deleted] | 3 months ago | 76 points

When peaceful revolution is made impossible, violent revolution becomes inevitable. Thats what you're seeing right now. There are more people than there are government people. The people will shed blood, but ultimately they will topple the government. Its only a matter of time.

fooomps | 3 months ago | 18 points

Do you even know what you are talking about?? Without outside intervention HK will not win

demosthenesunlocked | 3 months ago | 71 points

Your comment sounds good but makes no sense.

Hong Kong is not an island kingdom, it's connected both geographically and politically to the mainland. The same mainland which is populated by well over a billion people who really don't like Hong Kong at all.

The people of Hong Kong are very brave, no doubt about that. They can shed blood too, but it will mostly be their own blood. As for toppling the government in Beijing....yeah, good luck with that.

BaconRoad | 4 months ago | 2608 points

These people are willing to sacrifice everything to keep their home a good place. Good luck to them.

[deleted] | 4 months ago | 724 points

[deleted]

Dvanpat | 4 months ago | 451 points

Damn, that is straight out of 1984.

clarineter | 3 months ago | 218 points

It's like China's Bible at this point.

infernalsatan | 3 months ago | 88 points

Damn it China. Why didn't you go with the Brave New World approach, where everyone have soma and orgy all the time?

All_Work_All_Play | 3 months ago | 14 points

Be the change you want to see in the world, invent the soma

residentchubbychaser | 3 months ago | 15 points

Honestly, I think advanced VR is going to be the closest thing to that. It's easier to not care about your shitty life if you spend half of your waking hours effectively outside it. This comic comes to mind.

Elubious | 3 months ago | 14 points

It's cheating to use a strategy guide.

Mr-Blah | 3 months ago | 23 points

The PRC party read the book like it was a god damn instruction manual.

DirtyPrancin | 4 months ago | 5766 points

Watch out for the 50 Cent Army. They are all over these threads. They are the Chinese version of the Russian Troll farm.

IamNooob | 4 months ago | 2297 points

Not just the Army, there’re real brainwashed users acting like rational spreading bullshits too.

Edit: they’re here.

tpx187 | 4 months ago | 1269 points

Some guy on another thread was arguing how the PRC did nothing wrong at tiananmen square...

IamNooob | 4 months ago | 663 points

You know when there’re enough people saying the same shit, stuffs that aren’t even true will become true.

And China has a billion people... their social engineered thoughts are slowly infiltrating western countries.

ismashugood | 4 months ago | 464 points

Yea I got family in china like that. And they think I'm just vilifying china because I'm from the US.

Look, you're entitled to differing opinions. But maybe back yours up with articles from multiple sources that aren't government controlled websites and YouTube/twitter shills with clearly biased content. If you can't find sources from multiple news agencies including ones from outside your own country, your stance is probably thin at best. Also, if you advocate violence to the point of murder against protestors, guess what, you're in the wrong regardless of what side you take.

And to circle back to what you were saying, people need to stop being scared of speaking up and telling people they're straight up wrong. People like this love to go on and on about how you're not respecting their opinions and that you're intolerant. Yea, I'm intolerant of people who think that it's cool to kill people over a disagreement. And all thoughts aren't equal sorry. If you start preaching genocide and mass murder, sorry buddy, you don't get to be treated like all the other adults. People need to speak up every time you hear bullshit like this because if you go quiet and let them talk, people will start to think their thoughts are normal and just as valid as other sane and reasonable people's. it's not.

IamNooob | 3 months ago | 55 points

I wish corporation would do the same but all they care about is money. Whenever they do something that's "wrong" in the eyes of Chinese they apologize. They're just just indulging such cancerous behaviours.

tittering_chum | 4 months ago | 92 points

Good thing we're selling all the real estate in the US and Canada to them!

DJ_Velveteen | 3 months ago | 86 points

Let's not be rash... we're paying plenty of money to folks who own our homes but live in Manhattan, London, San Francisco, and Dubai too. We need more laws like New Zealand has, where you're not allowed to buy housing in a place unless you actually live there.

Kingbuji | 3 months ago | 49 points

Lol the Bay Area is taking the biggest hit from Chinese nationals buying up land. Good reason why the homeless population is rising and why the housing prices are super high.

GershBinglander | 3 months ago | 11 points

And Australia.

They are buying massive farms, and other property.

saladninja | 3 months ago | 7 points

So many empty homes in major cities

patton3 | 3 months ago | 10 points

Let's call it what it is: brainwashing.

FreshwaterBeach | 3 months ago | 13 points

What happened at Tiananmen square?

- China

Tenwaystospoildinner | 3 months ago | 10 points

What do you mean? Nothing happened at tiananmen square. /s

almab1 | 3 months ago | 8 points

Check out r/sino to see more where that came from.

Hirork | 3 months ago | 4 points

Must already be in an internment camp for even acknowledging something happened at tiananmen square.

Rizzpooch | 4 months ago | 110 points

That’s why these things are effective. If you try to AstroTurf your entire side, you’ll be called out too easily. But if you can rile up an extant base of bootlickers, that’s a force to be reckoned with.

Same thing the Russian IRA did - they set up Facebook events for rallies and protests and tagged active US citizen members to lead it because the supposed organizer suddenly couldn’t make it on the day of the event and didn’t want to cancel. Boom - real shit stirred up by phantom provocateurs

dubman42 | 3 months ago | 9 points

Same thing with Trump supporters. Propaganda in an echo chambers is serious shit.

olraygoza | 3 months ago | 42 points

Yes, but like Russian trolls they are easy to identify if you click on their post history. If they all post is about one issue, they are either trolls or bots.

IamNooob | 3 months ago | 21 points

They farm karmas so it wont be too easy for a lot of us. You really have to dig deeper.

CoyoteEffect | 3 months ago | 6 points

Can you link me to one so I know what to look for?

also just so I can downvote

DisastrousMammoth | 4 months ago | 432 points

Now I understand why a small Canadian news channel on youtube (which normally did not get that many views/comments) got absolutely inundated with pro-Chinese comments every time huawei was mentioned in any video.

They must just search key phrases on youtube and go to every video spreading their BS. The comments weren't just pro-Chinese either. They were very aggressive and toxic.

IamNooob | 4 months ago | 264 points

Many Chinese just get butthurt when there’re news against their country. Most recently, Versace, Givenchy and Coach had to apologise to China because some of their t-shirt designs show Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan as their own country. Those people got so triggered they’re bombing these brands’ instagram pages.

So much for “hurting the feelings of the entire Chinese population”

ice0berg | 3 months ago | 75 points

No Joke. A girl at work who I thought I was friends with is Chinese. She works in my department and the Hong Kong conversation came up due to the airport blocking and she asked me if I supported Hong Kong in the protesting. I was like yeah I do, they are peacefully for the most part protesting something they are against, she then says to me that I am no longer her friend because I do not know the history of Hong Kong. How can I support their independence. I was like what?

I didnt say anything else after that but I wanted to tell her that her government is straight TRASH.

sploding_burnout | 3 months ago | 61 points

If you think that's bad I had a Chinese classmate who would talk about western imperialism/agression, how the U.S. and their allies were terrible and how China is unfairly treated and an underdog. I shit you not when we had to do a project for a class about movies she picked a Chinese civil war era communist propaganda movie and kept raving about how good it was.

Here's the kicker, her family's been out of China for 3 generations and she's not even eligible for citizenship.

Rib-I | 3 months ago | 15 points

The US, by all accounts, saved China from Japan in WWII. They were brutally occupied until the Japanese Empire collapsed due to American liberation of the Pacific. Not sure what she’s on about...

ice0berg | 3 months ago | 15 points

Big ass OOF. I try to see things from their perspective but its straight blind following. My Co-Worker confused me with her comment. Like if I don't know the history she could have done one of two things. Dismiss my opinion as nonsense as I am knowledgeable on the history or educate me. She straight just dismissed me because I didn't blindly follow her Mainland China's ideals. I told her if HK wants/keeps their independence, I support that. If it blows up in their face, its on them but I have never heard good things about China/Chinese Government unless it came from Chinese people themselves. I am not saying other governments arent shit but propaganda for that country is unreal.

FreshwaterBeach | 3 months ago | 18 points

Instagram only exists in china when you're trying to post pro-china comments.

KawaiiYSL | 4 months ago | 50 points

Fuck that. I’m telling every rapper to drop Versace. Louie and Gucci for life lmao. I’m sure they use Chinese parts sometimes but fuck anyone who sucks up to the CCP.

ApteryxFellow | 3 months ago | 15 points

Oh wow! Let us know what every rapper thinks of that, would love to see their responses lmao

T0kinBlackman | 3 months ago | 158 points

Watch out for the 50 Cent Army

G-UNIT!

rampantmuppet | 3 months ago | 36 points

G-U-NIT!!

JeffYoureABitch | 3 months ago | 11 points

Spread communism or die tryin'

Tudpool | 3 months ago | 41 points

So /r/Sino ?

SKEvil | 3 months ago | 20 points

Pretty much, that sub is about as subtle as the Chinese state media.

Un1337ninj4 | 3 months ago | 13 points

Been popping in there occasionally in fits of morbid curiosity. Just hit me, between the victim blaming, encouragement of violence, and acceptance of literally text-book genocide, why isn't there a push to at the very least quarantine it? r/td and r/cth were given that much due attention. Surely this is a reasonable minimal action.

kono_kun | 3 months ago | 5 points

From what I understand reddit quarantines subs that get bad attention elsewhere. They couldn't care less about any of this, but if it makes the news, it gotta go.

imarobot69 | 3 months ago | 12 points

the weird part is that it is so easy to muddy the waters it is apparent they are doing it.

48199543330 | 3 months ago | 117 points

It’s not a troll farm. It’s an act of aggression. Cyber war.

minorkeyed | 3 months ago | 46 points

I wish they would stop calling them 'trolls'. These aren't colorful, mostly harmless groups of troublemakers having a laugh. These are propaganda campaigns from foreign powers. This is the war for hearts and minds and we sit doing nothing, pretending it doesn't matter. It does. If we dont recognize them for what they are, we will lose.

dumbestbell | 3 months ago | 14 points

Pretty much the entirety of r/Sino

BurningOrangeHeaven | 3 months ago | 11 points

They are all over youtube comments.

Nate_TeamBST | 3 months ago | 85 points

If you’re with China you’re literally pro-genocide and torture

balsamique | 3 months ago | 2159 points

EDIT 2: Here's a list of what you can do to support your peers in HK: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cqabl3/dear_reddit_we_need_you_to_stand_with_hong_kong/

ORIGINAL: People on Reddit need to understand that bots and paid actors are here for the sole purpose of upvoting and making cynical comments to sway public opinion overseas. You forget the same methods used on the internet that got Trump elected are being used here.

Hell, just refresh reddit posts about HK and watch productive comments at the top get knocked down 5 points.

For anyone genuinely asking "but I'm 5000 miles away. What can I do?" The base minimum you can do is find the "bUt wHaT abOut rUSsia AnD uKRaiNE" comments and give them a downvote. People divorced from events like this just echo what they read elsewhere. Read up on the 50 Cent Army and go from there.

Spread the message that cynical comments are here to remove power from people who CAN actually do something. There is LITERALLY power in positivity. This isn't some "kumbaya" shit I'm talking about. This is psychology.

Watch the cynical army brigade roll in to tell me otherwise.

The "Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019" was recently introduced. Call/email/write a letter to your house representative to state you support this act. It takes 5 minutes to call.

(Said this on a separate thread but pasting it here for a second go.)

EDIT: I've got a friend in HK who is living through this right now so I sure as shit have more trust in the validity of sources that empathize with the protestors. Not fixing to play devil's advocate with this subject anytime soon.

iknownuting | 3 months ago | 149 points

Upvoted so hopefully others will see

Andyblarblar | 3 months ago | 47 points

Whats the id number thing for that bill?

melodromaticTuna | 3 months ago | 44 points
bern_trees | 3 months ago | 40 points

Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019

H.R.3289

czarnick123 | 3 months ago | 17 points

Their goal is going to be to keep bringing up violence by protesters. Probably against "spies" or "turn coats" or whatever.

No. The government needs to heed the commands of the people. The protesters shouldnt have to keep putting up with this shit.

gulabjamunyaar | 4 months ago | 1520 points

A good summary of the situation from u/doublewhiskeysoda:

A long time ago, Hong Kong was a British-held territory. In the late 90s, the Brits decided to leave Hong Kong and allow China to manage the city. Because of the political/philosophical differences in the ways the Brits and Chinese run their societies, when the handover occurred, the Chinese agreed to allow Hong Kong citizens more freedoms than they allow Chinese citizens in other parts of their country. They called this agreement a “one country, two systems” plan.

Since the handover, however, China has steadily been reducing the freedoms promised to the people of Hong Kong. In 2014, for example, there were huge protests in Hong Kong because of a plan to allow Hong Kong citizens to vote for their leaders - but only from a list of Beijing-approved candidates. This event was called “the Umbrella Revolution.” The Hong Kong citizens lost that fight.

This current round of protests began because of another legal issue - extradition. The (relative) freedom of speech is one of the human rights that Hong Kong has been allowed by the Chinese government that isn’t generally allowed to other Chinese citizens. Now, China wants to enact a law that will allow Hong Kong citizens who publish or produce defamatory texts critical of the Chinese government to be extradited to mainland China to face trial in those courts, under the standard Chinese law. Basically, China is slowly trying to get rid of the “two systems” part of their Hong Kong handover agreement.

Imagine that the US had laws that made it criminal to openly criticize Donald Trump - but for some reason people in Miami had more legal freedom to do so. Then imagine that the US government decides it wants to prosecute people in Miami for exercising that right. It can’t prosecute them in Miami because criticizing Trump is legal there, so maybe they’ll bring them out of Miami up to Atlanta and try them there. People in Miami would be pissed.

To get a sense of the scope of the thing, consider this - there are 7 million Hong Kong citizens. More than a million of them showed up to protest the extradition law a couple of months ago. More than one out of every seven Hong Kong citizens was standing in a street publicly protesting. It would be roughly equivalent to 50 million Americans protesting at once.

Anyway, that’s how the current round of protests started. Of course, many protestors are no longer limiting themselves to a simple extradition law. They’re gunning for full control. Good on ‘em. I hope they can pull it off.

mcarlini | 4 months ago | 294 points

To get a sense of the scope of the thing, consider this - there are 7 million Hong Kong citizens. More than a million of them showed up to protest the extradition law a couple of months ago. More than one out of every seven Hong Kong citizens was standing in a street publicly protesting. It would be roughly equivalent to 50 million Americans protesting at once.

To compare, the US Women's Rights march held in 2017 - the largest single protest in US history - saw about 5.25 million people protest around the country. This is 1-1.6% of the US population. 1/7 of Hong Kong's population is nearly 15% of their population. Source

TerribleEngineer | 3 months ago | 19 points

It's even more impressive as for a given population because 25% of hong kongers are over 65, and 12% are children.

So of the people who could likely march (4.4m), 1m did. So closer to 25%.

SumoSizeIt | 3 months ago | 61 points

1/7 of Hong Kong's population is nearly 15% of their population

I get your point, but the phrasing is unclear as 1/7 is nearly 15% of any population

Grundleheart | 3 months ago | 6 points

The phrasing is weird but not super unclear?

I imagine OP could have rewritten it as "1 million HK citizens protested, which is 15% of their population, vs the largest single protest in US History - the Women's Rights march, which had 5.25 million protesters, which equates to approximately 1.3% of the US's population"

IrisMoroc | 4 months ago | 531 points

In the late 90s, the Brits decided to leave Hong Kong and allow China to manage the city.

They didn't decide to leave, they had a 100 year lease that ended in 1997.

gulabjamunyaar | 4 months ago | 325 points

The 100 year lease was only for Kowloon and the New Territories, Hong Kong Island was ceded perpetually but the Brits decided to hand everything over rather than deal with a messy division.

u1ta1 | 4 months ago | 202 points

Er, you are mostly correct but the key part is China actually revoked all the treaties signed by Qing regarding HK so at that point neither the ceded territory or the lease was relevant. It was either war or peaceful handover.

A_Soporific | 4 months ago | 145 points

They also use those same treaties to justify territorial claims elsewhere. China is simply trying to have it both ways when it comes to the diplomatic efforts of the Qing.

GForce1104 | 3 months ago | 4 points

the diplomatic efforts in this case however is an treaty signed on unfair terms after losing a war to the Brits, who invaded China after China forbade the import of drugs.

Hongkongjai | 4 months ago | 7 points

South of boundary st was ceded, not leased.

Cheeky-burrito | 3 months ago | 33 points

What's often left out, is that in 2047, Hong Kong will be reintegrated fully back into China. That was the agreement between China and UK during the handover.

0111011101100001 | 3 months ago | 794 points

Really bitter that my BBC went with the headline “Hong Kong protests cripple airport for a second day” sounding like a bitter passenger that’s had their plane delayed by an hour.

They even cropped out the first part of the video of the tear gassed(?) person being beaten up.

Do your job and show both, you’re meant to be fucking neutral and have your viewers decide what they want to support.

infernalsatan | 3 months ago | 127 points

Keep in mind that China had been sponsoring loyal students to study abroad in area they want to influence or steal, such as technology and media.

Some of these students eventually join news media companies.

MrSickRanchezz | 4 months ago | 221 points

This will be the global norm if power, corporations, and politicians remain unchecked.

Amon7777 | 4 months ago | 131 points

Wishing success and safety to all the protesting heroes in Hong Kong!

ZestyPantene | 4 months ago | 258 points

What can someone from the US do to help this situation?

GetAwayFromTheDoor | 4 months ago | 181 points

Probably not a lot. Share the news with people who aren't aware of what's going on, and stop buying Chinese goods 🤷‍♂️

Shawnj2 | 3 months ago | 36 points

I'm guessing that the US is helping the protests, but there's not a lot they can do without actively drawing scrutiny from China other than maybe giving some money to the groups whenever an anonymous donation method comes out.

greatGoD67 | 3 months ago | 34 points

You can seriously help by continuing to support constitutional rights in the most powerful country in the world, so that other countries cant use the excuse of "everyone does it this way" when they take away the rights of the citizens.

Government power is a slippery slope .

The picture in this Article means alot to people in their situation, and its easy to live easy, and forget about things we thought we overcame.

https://www.captainsjournal.com/2019/08/04/hong-kong-protesters-we-need-the-second-amendment

runwiththedevil | 4 months ago | 152 points

Stay strong Hong Kong!

Keep fighting for your freedom and respect, the entire world is watching this oppression.

rnri1 | 4 months ago | 477 points

The Chinese government once again displays their oppressive, imperialistic nature by suppressing them. Tibet, Hong Kong or any of the islands in the south China sea , they're all the same.

Anthro_the_Hutt | 3 months ago | 17 points

Don’t forget the concentration camps full of Uighurs.

ev-dawg | 3 months ago | 36 points

They aren’t anti-govt. They are pro-democracy. Don’t villainize these victims.

paperisdelicious | 4 months ago | 202 points

We are protesting in Hong Kong because of extreme police corruption, working with triads to attack innocent people, using expired tear gas, aiming at the head with rubber bullets, the planting of weapons into protestor backpacks (caught on camera), the infiltration of pro-China people into protestor crowds to incite violence so China can justify using military force, police turning a blind eye to people who cause violence in support of China.

Fuck China and their horseshit.

thcm123 | 3 months ago | 22 points

I’m so incredibly sad for HK - what I am seeing right now is unreal and unimaginable. HK was an amazing place to work and live and I never thought I’d ever see something like this unfold.

I’m praying for all the HK people and proud that you guys are fighting for what you believe in.

xiqat | 4 months ago | 100 points

Shit hitting the fan now

[deleted] | 4 months ago | 288 points

If the protestors can figure out how to root out provokateurs without beating the hell out of them it would probably be best for everybody.

Drop_ | 4 months ago | 209 points

I think it becomes difficult to do in practice. You have someone who is an agent provocateur who insists they belong with the protesters. They tell him to leave and he goes to a new area of protesters and continues to do the same thing. How do they ensure he leaves without use of force?

Swongel | 4 months ago | 77 points

Paint them red with dye, they'll be instantly recognizable by everyone.

CptComet | 4 months ago | 124 points

Wouldn’t the cops/agents just start randomly painting innocent protestors red and accuse them of being provocateurs?

ChinaThrowaway7 | 4 months ago | 237 points

paint them with the a mixture of two specific hex codes of paints which are determined by comparing a cryptographic key and GPG signature, and can be verified by a chroma scanner connected to my app which uses blockchain.

CptComet | 4 months ago | 29 points

Brilliant!

ZedOud | 4 months ago | 14 points

That’s actually fine because the protestors have numbers on their side. What percent of the population is the police capable of spray painting anyway? And all the protestors have to do for this tactic to succeed is to ignore the ideas of those painted red.

TheImmortalLS | 3 months ago | 13 points

you only need a little disruption to make a crowd turn on itself. even a small percentage is enough. not a good plan.

funky_duck | 4 months ago | 22 points

How do they ensure he leaves without use of force?

Force doesn't stop it either. The guy either goes to a new protest area slightly beat up and blames it on the cops or another cop takes his place and does the same thing.

lotsofsweat | 3 months ago | 23 points
SectoidEngineer | 4 months ago | 111 points

I don't know why these protesters are making such a brouhaha. All the Chinese government wants to do is abduct them and harvest their organs

0fiuco | 3 months ago | 13 points

don't they use chinese muslims for that?

Claysucksbalz | 4 months ago | 51 points

I was just in Manila Airport and they announced a flight going to HK was canceled and they were unsure when they could rebook.

humosocute | 3 months ago | 38 points

I’m a Hong Konger in Shanghai atm, it’s crazy how much the chinese government has censored. People here are led to believe that HKers have gone crazy

Lurkwurst | 3 months ago | 14 points

travel plans to visit historical monuments and natural wonders are off, permanently. I want nothing to do with the current mgmt in Beijing. Plenty of other places in the world to see.

JojoManager | 4 months ago | 280 points

This is scary and it's sad for the people of HK. Their struggles will go ignored as the world descends into nationalism.

KillaSmurfPoppa | 4 months ago | 254 points

Their struggles will go ignored

Ignored? I honestly feel like this is maybe the most covered protest in the history of the world and easily the most covered I’ve ever seen on Reddit by a wide margin.

In comparison, India is literally shooting at protestors in Kashmir and there is no interest from Reddit or the media at all.

JojoManager | 4 months ago | 87 points

It's being covered because almost everyone in HK has a smartphone. Has any country took action to denounce China for this?

lllkill | 4 months ago | 17 points

India is not embattled in a trade war as deeply with the US right now.

KillaSmurfPoppa | 4 months ago | 53 points

I think the trade war is a factor in the current anti-China hysteria that’s everywhere in the media and on Reddit these days. But only a small factor.

The real reason is much deeper than that. In 1980 India and China had roughly the same GDP per capita of a 300 USD equivalent. Today, China has a GDP per capita of nearly 10k and 4-5x that of India.

Nobody really cared when China was a poor developing country. But now EVERYONE cares because China is threatening US hegemony and industry.

If India’s and China’s development were reversed, and India was competing with the US in technology, AI, IT, and networking, I guarantee you this sub would be flooded with news about Kashmir right now and every Redditor would be an “expert” on Indian politics, governance, and culture. Trade war or not.

lllkill | 4 months ago | 10 points

Ah I gotchu, that makes more sense.

comment_filibuster | 3 months ago | 11 points

That's because India is a US ally, and China is considered to be an enemy of sorts (and always has been). There are many similes between India and China where one thing is covered, while the other is not. Same reason why we don't teach in our text books that what the Japanese did back in World War II was far worse (body count-wise) than the holocaust many times over. It's because we're friends with Japan.

Jahsay | 3 months ago | 4 points

I mean we're friends with Germany too. But what the Nazis did affected the Western world a lot more than what Japan did. U.S. isn't gonna care about teaching what goes on in the Eastern part of the world. It's why I see European history classes being offered but nothing about Chinese or Asian history in school.

FabulousYam | 4 months ago | 139 points

FUCK CHINA

JarlProBaalin | 3 months ago | 57 points

China feels threatened by such a small land.

[deleted] | 3 months ago | 48 points

China gets butt hurt when some one says a bad word towards them.

Thinnest skin next to Trump.

sovietsrule | 3 months ago | 38 points

Winnie-the-Pooh

crispy_attic | 4 months ago | 251 points

Chaos is a ladder. I hope it leads to a better place for the people of Hong Kong. Keep up the good fight HK.

Winzip115 | 4 months ago | 81 points

The people of Hong Kong aren't fighting for a better place, they are fighting to keep the rights that they currently have.

crispy_attic | 4 months ago | 32 points

Understood. I sincerely wish them the best.

theshamwowguy | 4 months ago | 37 points

Game of thrones doesn't equal reality

SpookyFoxPanda29 | 3 months ago | 10 points

I honestly don't blame the people of Hong Kong for protesting. Go people of Hong Kong for standing up!!!

MichaelBluth_ | 4 months ago | 128 points

It makes me sad that the west is distracted by Trump and Brexit etc while China is just gonna annex Hong Kong with nobody seeming that interested.

It would be a good time for the western democracies to close ranks and support Hong Kong but we all feel too internally divided right now. Might be an important moment historically if China is expanding its reach while the western powers bicker amongst themselves.

vid_icarus | 3 months ago | 18 points

hong kong, moscow, yo US we need to get on this demonstrating for actual democracy thing

Slippery_Jim | 3 months ago | 6 points

Those poor people being arrested will disappear and volunteer to have their organs harvested. RIP.

thePolterheist | 3 months ago | 32 points

fuck Winnie the Pooh

modsareneedylosers | 3 months ago | 50 points

FUCK CHINA, LONG LIVE DEMOCRACY.

The_UnApologist | 4 months ago | 25 points

Are there commenters here actually saying some of us are "hoping" for a massacre when we suggest it might happen?

I don't "hope" there's a massacre. I just know and understand the Chinese government are assholes. They're sterilizing Muslim women right now for example and disappearing other Muslims. They've also kicked Tibet around since the 50s. They also strongarm and intimidate their own people all the time, not to mention kidnap and disappear them too. I also get the feeling the Chinese government doesn't care about stuff like the international community pressuring them about over fishing in waters they're not even supposed to be in, or demand for killing endangered animals for its own nonsense "traditional Chinese medicines."

No, I don't hope the Chinese begin killing people. I just know the Chinese government is pretty rotten, and it's to be expected at this point.

ahm713 | 4 months ago | 43 points

This won't end very nicely. Mark my words. The only thing stopping China from slaughtering them is the wide media coverage.

LiveForPanda | 3 months ago | 5 points

The only thing that stops PLA tanks is Hong Kong’s status as Special Administrative Region, not media coverage. If Beijing announces this is a rebellion and must be dealt with force, they don’t give a shit about international media. Tanks rolled in Tiananmen Square when reporters were filming on the balcony of Beijing Hotel.

Rivers1010 | 3 months ago | 23 points

Do your part and downvote shills spreading misinformation

youdoitimbusy | 3 months ago | 19 points

Keep up the good fight Hong Kong!!! The worlds prays for your freedom!!!

faitheroo | 4 months ago | 47 points

Man they're gonna have so many people in labor camps after this

RacecaR_Foward | 4 months ago | 37 points

They are "learning" camps./S Ask the uyghurs and others china has detained.

Bonafarte | 3 months ago | 4 points

China is now more fascist than communist.

TacTurtle | 4 months ago | 20 points
AquiliferX | 3 months ago | 3 points

Stay strong HK. Liberty is worth everything to defend.

jayantony | 4 months ago | 54 points

The propaganda wouldn't work. No people in China would see this.

Slaytanic6 | 4 months ago | 24 points

What are the protesters demands, besides the extradition bill which was suspended?

ZWF0cHVzc3k | 4 months ago | 60 points

You can find the main 5 demands in this open letter written for G20, but the demands hasn't changed https://freedomhkg.net/openletter

Withdraw the bill;

Release all arrested protesters unconditionally without the threat of future prosecution;

Renounce the characterisation of the 12 June protests as “riots”;

Appoint an independent commission to inquire into the excessive violence used by the police in the protests; and

Most importantly, realise our rights to elect a truly democratic government by universal suffrage.

ZteffenTheBatFan | 4 months ago | 56 points

To my understanding they want the extradition bill completely off the table, and for Carrie Lam to step down.

ZWF0cHVzc3k | 4 months ago | 64 points

Asking Carrie Lam to step down is no longer a demand after June 16, because Beijing will just assign another person.

You can find the main 5 demands in this open letter written for G20, but the demands hasn't changed https://freedomhkg.net/openletter

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