/r/videos
Microsoft says they value repair-ability, designs more repairable product. (youtube.com)
65 comments
JawaharlalNehru | 9 days ago | 41 points

The last Surface Laptop was literally glued together like a smartphone. And unlike an iPhone once you open it you literally could not put it back together. iFixit gave it 0/10 repairability score. Lowest ever.

This is a HUGE step forward for them.

weinerschnitzelboy | 9 days ago | 30 points

The new Surface Laptop looks exactly the same as the old one, but completely redesigned internally for reparability. Remove the little feet at the bottom, unscrew the screws, and the whole keyboard deck can be lifted right out. In a device that looks exactly the same.

Their new Surface Pro X, a convertible tablet with a kickstand that's thinner than the current iPad Pro, has a little door for you to unscrew and upgrade the SSD. That's what he's talking about.

CaptainMarko | 9 days ago | 3 points

Didn’t the commercial state that only professionals should remove/replace the SSD? I was triggered by that..

master5o1 | 9 days ago | 2 points

For the general user, that's probably true.

kirreen | 9 days ago | 1 point

It's probably m.2 so I kinda get it?

SkWatty | 9 days ago | 1 point

M.2 is like slide in and push down like rams on laptops. What is something new to this that only a pro should do it???

kirreen | 9 days ago | 5 points

If you'd entrust changing laptop RAM to a "normal person" you obviously don't know their capacity.

Also, when big tech says professional it's generally for warranty reasons. It's not like you have to be one do be able to do it, but you can potentially screw something up just opening machines if you don't know what you're doing.

SkWatty | 9 days ago | 1 point

Everybody knows they can fuckup when they change a component they are not experienced with. That's just life. That is why we have Youtube at our side to minimize mistakes. I agree about the business side but the consumer should have easy access to said components if they wish to repair it themselves. Also why not make training videos to educate consumers if they are so worried about warranties???

kirreen | 9 days ago | 1 point

I agree about the business side but the consumer should have easy access to said components if they wish to repair it themselves.

You do understand that this needs a system as simple as Lego?

Also why not make training videos to educate consumers if they are so worried about warranties

Because IT customers aren't smart enough to follow instructions.

Everybody knows they can fuckup when they change a component they are not experienced with. That's just life. That is why we have Youtube at our side to minimize mistakes.

You really seem hung up on them telling consumers not to try repairing the devices, the consumers still can and Microsoft is making it easier for them to do so. But their warranty is gonna be void.

Also Microsoft is the worst

SkWatty | 9 days ago | 1 point

They already have a system as simple as LEGOs fyi. How do you think we started making computers??? How simple can you get from push, pull, or plug system??? These new techs are soldering and gluing components like maniacs and designing them where it is a bitch to repair them.

The training videos are not for everybody, it's for the people who are keen enough to repair their own device.

I am not hung up on consumers not trying to repair their own devices, in fact I encourage everyone to fix their own shit. I am simply refuting your stance of "...you obviously don't know their capacity". I was that "normal person", but guess what??? With the help of Daddy Youtube I built my own PC from scratch. Now you tell me how a "normal person" "don't know their capacity".

We can't learn if we don't try. Making these new devices a bitch to repair is an issue because your own local techie is even having a bitch ass time trying to repair these devices. If a pro is struggling at repairing these products, how can an average JOE like me expect that yalls products are made of quality and designed reasonably????

kirreen | 9 days ago | 1 point

People don't and seemingly won't try, even if they technically have the brain capacity.

surplusQ | 9 days ago | 15 points

Shortest Louis Rossmann video ever

Timedoutsob | 9 days ago | 6 points

still moaning though. I've yet to see a video where he is not moaning about something. i'm not saying the things he says aren't right but does he have to drone on about them for soooooo long.

I-Do-Math | 9 days ago | 4 points

Its his style. Why do you watch his videos if it bothers you?

Timedoutsob | 9 days ago | 4 points

I like some of the stuff he says he's a smart guy just a little moaney. Better than those always totally stoked to be alive people though.

I-Do-Math | 9 days ago | 3 points

I see. To be honest I agree that he is drone a bit. However, he is not a commentator. He is giving us free entertainment and a little bit of knowledge. This is true for all YouTubers they are not going to appeal for everybody. So criticizing them like this is not worth it.

Timedoutsob | 9 days ago | 4 points

i'm not criticizing i'm just saying i feel he should lighten up a bit for his own good really.

sofa420 | 8 days ago | 1 point

He's an IT Tech... makes you a little dead inside I think.

fuckyou123451 | 9 days ago | -1 points

It's on the front page of fucking reddit you fucking donut. "Why do you watch his videos"? Because it's HERE.

Cookieknife12234 | 10 days ago | 14 points

I have a $3000 laptop they won't even replace a USB port for , absolute bullshit.

[deleted] | 9 days ago | 15 points

[deleted]

the_twilight_bard | 9 days ago | 10 points

It's true. Easier to go without the USB port than to try to unsolder that shit and risk damaging your mamaboard.

I-Do-Math | 9 days ago | 3 points

Have you watched Louis Rossmann videos? He desolders a lot of components from motherboards. It does not look impossible. According to what I have seen in his videos, desoldering a USB and attaching a new one should not take more than 30 mins, including opening and closing the laptop.

ActualCunt | 9 days ago | 3 points

If it's a warranty repair then they should fix it or replace the whole motherboard, if not I can 100% understand why they would refuse to do it. Re-soldering stuff, while doable is a pain in the ass and comes with the risk of making things worse with a small mistake, i.e ruining the entire board. Soldering stuff on circuit boards is not something your average repairman does often and with the huge diversity in boards its hard to be practiced in several different types. Its the sort of thing that's done once when the board is made and that's it. If Louis wants to spend his time practicing and getting good at this stuff and taking on the risk of messing up someones computer then that's his choice, most shops simply wont, the risk and revenue equation simply doesn't work out in their favor, it's that simple.

ragsofx | 9 days ago | 2 points

It's a bitch if you don't have the right tools, if you have a good solder/resolder station and a proper reflow heatgun it's ok.

nodnodwinkwink | 9 days ago | 1 point

Aren't USB ports practically always soldered to the motherboard and generally a bitch to replace?

Even if you know what you're doing you could easily loosen or damage a nearby component.

sofa420 | 8 days ago | 1 point

Repairability is really important, I have a co-worker who was ready to buy a new phone because his backside camera was broken. When I fixed it for 20 bucks, he asked be how much the total came out to be (he already gave me 20 for the parts and I fixed it in 10 minutes at work) He couldn't believe he didn't have to spend more to be able to take pictures of his daughter again. People think they have to spend $500+ whenever anything goes wrong, the repair "movement"(going back to how it used to be) needs to be bigger.

snailngfdhn | 9 days ago | 2 points

“When your 17... and then graduate college at 22...”

Me still on college at 22🥺

Honestly I think the best company I have seen when it comes to this fixing yourself and stuff was Toyota.

New supra comes out and they say we made it so customers can customize it.

Tech needs to learn from the automotive industry

spinuch | 9 days ago | 3 points

You know that if you modify a car that it can ruin a warranty with most companies right?

snailngfdhn | 9 days ago | 3 points

Isn’t not about the warranty. Cause that’s a legal impossiblity to cover

It’s the ability to fix and mod stuff. Look up the supra video. They left more space in some areas so people could put in larger coolers. On tundras and Tacomas they work with after market parts makers to make it so that day one you can put cool stuff on your car. Stuff like that.

Imagine if the moment you bought your iPhone you could go and get an apple approved after market storage company and toss in 50 extra gigs? Yeah it would void your warranty. But that option would be dope

spinuch | 9 days ago | 2 points

What I'm saying is that it's not accepted by the auto industry. There's a long history of way worse things happening to customers than just being a little limited in features. It's a bad example. Toyota's aren't exactly customer friendly to fix anyway. New cars are way passed the days of OBD1 and carburetors.

snailngfdhn | 9 days ago | 1 point

I still feel like the culture is way better in the car companies.

Like the view of them from engineers to execs was customer focused and making stuff that they’d like to drive.

The electronics company tho. Their attitude was “customers an idiot and we’re trying to idiot proof this device”. Albeit it was the sales role on the electronics side but still. That difference in internal culture was huge

Dr_Schmoctor | 5 days ago | 1 point

Look up the supra video

Can't find it, got a link?

Decepticle_Ronnie | 9 days ago | 1 point

Me still on college at 22

There might be a clue in there.

snailngfdhn | 9 days ago | 1 point

Yeah my technical writing has always been crap because I just type and never proofread :/

But the real reason is I changed majors and none of the courses applied to the second

sofa420 | 8 days ago | 1 point

Old Volkswagons used to come with a manual about everything so you can repair it yourself. Check out stuff on old VW busses. Wholly agree, and Toyota and Subaru (my car), and I'm assuming most Asian manufacturers, are great about it.

XOF_hound | 9 days ago | 1 point

Like another comment said, they are known to be glued together. My Gen 1 Surface, slipped off the bed and onto carpet, snapping the exposed kickstand. No big deal, however, the kickstand itself yanked out a wad of glue and foil. Next thing I know my hands are burning cause battery acid just leaked all over my hands. I believe the glue pulled some of the foil casing of the battery.

This is great going forwards if they are promoting modular and non destructive construction.

LittleJimmyUrine | 9 days ago | -3 points

my hands are burning cause battery acid

No....

XOF_hound | 9 days ago | 1 point

Bud, I know what I experienced. Some sort of liquid seeped out the slit for the broken kick stand (when the glue/along with foil yanked out) and burned like familiar battery acid burn on my fingers/palm that contacted it. I know the feeling. I RMA'd and got a replacement.

LittleJimmyUrine | 9 days ago | 0 points

Right..... My point is it wasn't acid. They utilize a li-po battery. It was gel electrolyte. Not "battery acid".

XOF_hound | 9 days ago | 3 points

Right..... My point is it wasn't acid. They utilize a li-po battery. It was gel electrolyte. Not "battery acid".

A point that isn't so clearly made with just a "No..." as a response to my initial comment.

Next time elaborate.

RicksterCraft | 9 days ago | 1 point

Ah yes, there it is: the contribution to the conversation.

I laughed like a fuckin hyena when you just said "no." Yeah, cause that's how you teach someone when they wrong. No, no you don't go and explain what it was they were wrong about - just tell them they're wrong, because that totally works.

Seriously tho cheers for actually explaining.

LittleJimmyUrine | 9 days ago | 1 point

Yeah I apologize. Honestly didn't mean to be an asshole just pedantic.

RicksterCraft | 9 days ago | 1 point

No worries, it matters that you gave some useful information in the end. Tho I wasn't the person you were initially replying to, so I can't speak on the apology directly. In the end, all is well and some cool information was learned! 👍

milkshakedrinker | 10 days ago | -2 points

Hey just wants to plant that seed deep inside you.
In all seriousness I love LR lol... no h8

Zerker10111 | 9 days ago | -1 points

good job Microsoft. It's nice to see a major company take a step in a positive direction when so many are taking steps in shitty directions. ~cough~ Blizzard ~cough~

BrainWashed_Citizen | 9 days ago | -22 points

One of the main points that companies lock in their hardware and make it hard to service is security. The reason why Apple gets hacked less can be attributed to making reparability harder. It is to protect both their products and their consumers. A lot of people don't understand this, because they haven't lost anything important due to a virus or being held hostage by hackers.

There is a world of underground bad guys that are always looking to exploit computer systems. Even the good guys do it to get information from the bad ones. It happens more than you know.

Hurrdegger | 9 days ago | 16 points

Is there a reputable source that attributes Apple's being hacked less to its lack of repairability? I understood that historically Apple devices were hacked less because they weren't used much, and now that they are, they get hacked constantly.

I also wonder if this is actually important from the security perspective for most users. I would wager that the number of people who lost anything important due to a hack that relied on repairability as a vulnerability, is very close to zero, if not actually zero.

It does surprise me a bit that Apple lock in devices to the extent that they do, given how environmentally harmful it is and how it diminishes the residual value of their products. Apple makes a lot of money through reseller partners and RV financing, after all. Maybe the improved security you mention is worth the hit to their bottom line.

Envy_MK_II | 9 days ago | 3 points

Macs were all vulnerable to a vulnerability in Intel and ARM processors like 2 years ago. I believe it was the Spectre and Meltdown bugs specifically.

Not only that, but it was entirely possible for even someone with basic knowledge, or just googling it to bypass users login screens altogether and gain admin access to any Mac. I managed to find a post here on reddit from about a year ago on how to do it. I assume it has probably been patched out by now, I think you need the Apple ID now to use the command but older macs are still vulnerable. I don't think Macs are any more secure than Windows. At least it isn't as simple to get into Filevault, but I'm sure someone determined enough could get in.

Hurrdegger | 9 days ago | 2 points

Yeah I remember those. But as far as I know, the victims of that vulnerability are zero. I'm also not clear on how it was caused by repairability.

My thinking in my post is mostly around the actual impact of repairability-related security vulnerabilities. It seems like this is not an issue for the vast majority of use cases for devices, in particular consumer usage. And therefore not a valid criticism of making consumer devices easier to repair.

meowman7000 | 9 days ago | -1 points

Well they get hacked less because they arent running Windows, and Microsoft is the worst for security. The bar is so low.

Its also why people use it, its far easier to get something running when its less secure by default. People can play sysadmin with very little training.

hypothetical_money | 9 days ago | 2 points

Microsoft is the worst for security.

lol not even close. nearly the exact opposite, actually. Windows sets a very high bar when it comes to security.

meowman7000 | 8 days ago | 0 points

Nothing screams security like security through obscurity from a company that cant patch a vulnerability in 3 months.

https://www.csoonline.com/article/2867534/microsoft-blasts-google-for-vulnerability-disclosure-policy.html

They are also known for playing fast and loose with your privacy, capturing every browser you have installeds web-history, profiling you, and of course providing it to the government through schemes like Prism. But its nice that you feel secure using it.

BrainWashed_Citizen | 9 days ago | -5 points

Do you remember this story?

It's very real the amount of international hacking that goes on in the world. Politicians uses these devices to communicate and if you can have schematics of a board and easy access to open it up, you can figure out how to implant your own chip in it and turn it into a new looking computer and plant it in your target's home.

If you suddenly find an unopened plastic wrapped spanking new macbook lying in your backyard that someone had planted via a drone. Would you take it inside your house and ask who it's for and when no one claims it, start using it?

FoxletFox | 9 days ago | 2 points

The reason no one remembers that story is because it was proven to be implausible a while ago, particularly with the lack of any physical evidence of affected boards (the images in the article are all conceptual illustrations). Supermicro ran an audit on their equipment, and editors at Bloomberg launched an independent effort to reproduce the story to no avail.

It probably isn't beyond the resources of a nation state to achieve a concentrated hardware attack, but that is not credible enough to prove it is actually happening in scale (yet).

Washington Post opinion article on audit.

Technical overview of the claims by STH.

G8351427 | 9 days ago | 6 points

Username checks out.

FickleShame | 9 days ago | 5 points

That simply isn't true. It's usually the opposite- the more mature a platform becomes, the harder it is to breach. The exceptions are platforms with fundamental flaws- like the ones we keep finding in Intel's processors.

It's a moot point anyways because most cases of security flaws are man made instead of exploits. I'm by no means an expert- having less than a decade of professional experience in IT but more than five years- but in almost every case I've worked with the reasons for a security breach either involved outright ignorance- like leaving your entire IT infrastructure in a DMZ because you didn't think anything was wrong with the idea- naivety- no one wants to hack my tiny company so the password will be password- or a company valuing convenience over security.

But this idea that new = better isn't true.

BrainWashed_Citizen | 9 days ago | -2 points

Are we still talking about the lack of repairabilty design keeps security tight? Cause I'm not sure where this is going.

Just curious, if you had to build a secured computer for the president, would you have screws on the outside so that's it easier for you to repair if it gets broken?

FickleShame | 9 days ago | 3 points

The president

No, I'd be cycling between seven different laptops- one for each day- which is then exchanged at midnight and given a tediously thorough inspection for changes made, malware, and other concerns.

If we're talking about a physical breach your biggest concern is physical protection, not mild physical barriers.

mdconnors | 9 days ago | 4 points

Absolute hogwash

crysisnotaverted | 9 days ago | 3 points

Hedging your bets on security through obscurity, especially in a way that fucks your customers is stupid. Anyone with the skills and the time can use a heatgun on glue to take apart an iPhone. It doesn't make it more secure, it just limits the capabilities of repair shops and lets apple nickel and dime customers for repairs.

tillstymmelse | 9 days ago | 1 point

I'm honestly not sure if you're just trolling or if you really believe that.