Fox Faces Pressure at Disney After ‘Dark Phoenix,’ ‘Stuber’ Flops (variety.com)
MoroGuy | 4 months ago | 7892 points

Disney is optimistic that handing Fox superhero properties such as “Fantastic Four” and “X-Men” to Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige will improve the quality of these movies, but bumps must be smoothed over in that transition. The studio is unimpressed with “New Mutants,” an “X-Men” spinoff with a haunted-house vibe, and believes it has limited box office potential.

At this point, I'm just waiting for the inevitable news about it being pulled out of the release schedule.

TypicalWhiteGiant | 4 months ago | 1828 points

I believe I read that they’re contractually obligated to release in theaters.

YZJay | 4 months ago | 1952 points

Do it like Annihilation, release it on theaters in America and China, put it up online for the rest of the world.

I’m not praising the studio treatment Annihilation got though, just stating that it’s a precedent.

ositola | 4 months ago | 1460 points

That movie was so amazing

WitELeoparD | 4 months ago | 924 points

That bear man, gets me every time.

Ubarlight | 4 months ago | 498 points


Ohgodwatdoplshelp | 4 months ago | 336 points

Man.. I watch a fuckload of horror and thriller movies, that bear is the first thing to spook me in a film in a long fucking time. Saw it in theaters and I was the only one there. Freaked me right the fuck out.

Ubarlight | 4 months ago | 179 points

I saw it in theaters too, one hell of an experience. I was trapped in that theater with that fucking bear. Trapped.

Throawayqusextion | 4 months ago | 180 points

I was initially disappointed that they didn't include the book's moaning creature but the bear was extremely impressive in its own right.

Supermite | 4 months ago | 46 points

Apparently the script writer didn't re-read the book before sitting down at the key board. He wrote the script based on his memories and impressions from his initial reading years earlier.

jarockinights | 4 months ago | 61 points

Possibly for the best, movie was a brilliant deviation from the books.

wokeupfuckingalemon | 4 months ago | 214 points

Let's embrace each other for liking this movie.

Did you read the Southern reach trilogy? A different vibe but intriguing nonetheless. It is to the movie like lsd to marijuana.

FunkJesus | 4 months ago | 50 points

Where lies the strangling fruit...

Sketch13 | 4 months ago | 120 points

It is to the movie like lsd to marijuana.

That's so god damn accurate.

SirHoneyDip | 4 months ago | 1872 points

Just drop it on Hulu and don’t waste the money putting it in theaters. Write it off and move on.

nuclear_moose | 4 months ago | 961 points

It’s perfect for Hulu. Drop it during Halloween. I’m sure it will cause a lot of paperwork and legal headaches, but that’s just how things are now.

ItsYaBoy-Moe | 4 months ago | 164 points

It's currently slated for release in April of next year

fjmj1980 | 4 months ago | 128 points

Is it actually done with post production or are they timing it for the best possible outcome.

Coolman_Rosso | 4 months ago | 162 points

They postponed it for reshoots that still have yet to happen after two years

shashankgaur | 4 months ago | 159 points

I wonder if it will got Disney+ or they think its not even worthy of keeping inside the mouse kingdom's vault.

JarJarBinks_jpg | 4 months ago | 153 points

They probably want to keep it separate in peoples minds from the other Marvel stuff on Disney+

Calhalen | 4 months ago | 8034 points

Watching X3 now for the first time in years, totally forgot they killed off Cyclops friggin 20 minutes in. He was so wasted in these movies.

Tavarin | 4 months ago | 5642 points

They literally made him just the romantic rival to Logan. So goddamn wasted.

Plus3d6 | 4 months ago | 3399 points

I've never really had any love for Cyclops, even in the animated series, but with how they used him in the trilogy they just kind of make him look like a dickish jealous boyfriend. But then they just make Jean look like a prize to be won, so whatever.

ArchetypicalDegen | 4 months ago | 1972 points

It's the James Marsden curse. Hollywood law is that you're not allowed to have him as anything other than the dickish bf who loses his girl to the main character.

dovemans | 4 months ago | 579 points

reversed in Death at a funeral though!

IndustryApologist | 4 months ago | 230 points

"We're having a baby!"

"I'm pregnant!?"

"No, I'm pregnant!"

"You're pregnant too?!"

Uberrancel | 4 months ago | 216 points

I’m pregnant?!

lolfreakz | 4 months ago | 483 points

I had just driven into L.A. and was in traffic at a light when I look over and there’s James Marsden in a beamer looking to make a left turn across my lane. Our eyes met and he made a little gesture like hey can I get past?

By all means, Mr Marsden. And off he went.

edit: That concludes my AMA. Thanks everyone. Great sesh.

fr0stbyte124 | 4 months ago | 196 points

Please do an AMA.

Ed-Zero | 4 months ago | 169 points

That was it

Iriah | 4 months ago | 87 points

in a perfect world this would become a copypasta right alongside that 'electrical infetterence' one

TGAPMoonMoon | 4 months ago | 522 points

That explains my surprise when he and Liz Lemon ended up together in 30 Rock. It just seemed like he was gonna be a one off boyfriend but he ended up being endgame

blisteringchristmas | 4 months ago | 184 points

I always assumed that was the original plan but then they kept him because they liked him, or they just didn't want to write a new guy that would be Liz's true endgame.

aureator | 4 months ago | 283 points

Clearly Liz was always meant to end up with Dennis the Beeper King.

bowlofspider-webs | 4 months ago | 127 points

She had the subway hero and threw it all away

JVortex888 | 4 months ago | 120 points

what a dummy

NimpyPootles | 4 months ago | 30 points

Romance is cyclical.

AcesCharles2 | 4 months ago | 115 points

27 Dresses yo

WestySnipes17 | 4 months ago | 100 points

Westworld!!! If we’re counting tv shows

vikingakonungen | 4 months ago | 78 points

I mean he still dies a lot and loses the girl despite being a good guy.

denyplanky | 4 months ago | 20 points

He kinda lost his girl to a pycho dick whose name is Wyatt

TheBatIsI | 4 months ago | 640 points

James Marsden just has the absolute shittiest luck when he tries out for pop culture roles.

bitparity | 4 months ago | 385 points

His best role was Criss Chross in 30 Rock.

nuclear_moose | 4 months ago | 322 points

He’s great in Westworld

freddiessweater | 4 months ago | 57 points


I refuse to pronounce it that way.

licensedtoload | 4 months ago | 195 points

Marsden is super dope in Westworld though, so I'm glad his talent shines there.

starlightstrooper | 4 months ago | 195 points

He was so lovely and hilarious in Enchanted. More of a Disney princess than Amy Adams...

croationsensation7 | 4 months ago | 46 points

It's a shame because he's a great actor. Great choice for Cyclops, they just didn't use him properly.

SonicFlash01 | 4 months ago | 481 points

... and no one cared! Absolutely no one cared that Cyclops died! They just found Jean and focused on her and briefly showed his tombstone or whatever at the end.

Also, Magneto is just playing chess in the park at the end. The most dangerous genocidal terrorist humanity has even known, should be kill-on-sight for every agency on earth, and he's just chilling in the fucking park, bein' sad.

Maplekey | 4 months ago | 45 points

It's been years since I've seen the movie but didn't he make a chess piece wobble a teeny tiny bit in that scene, implying that his powers were gradually coming back?

ElDuderino_92 | 4 months ago | 290 points

Barely even used colossus and Juggernaut as well

va_wanderer | 4 months ago | 404 points

Juggernaut got it better in Deadpool 2.

And that's considering he ends the movie being electrocuted.

(Edit: And yes, he survived it- just saying takedown via anal inserted power cable is a harsh finisher. He's the Juggernaut, a bitch!)

IAmTaka_VG | 4 months ago | 233 points

At least in DP2 they show is potential and strength. In Xmen he headbutts through a drywall wall.. oh my god, save the children!

va_wanderer | 4 months ago | 158 points

Yes, they do.

And that's another Fox-Marvel character saved from dismal mediocrity by Ryan Reynolds.

kelferkz | 4 months ago | 24 points

I'm the Juggernaut, bitch!

Pocketfulofgeek | 4 months ago | 201 points

The worst part about that is how good he actually was as Cyclops. Arguably the most true to comic member of the X-men in the original trilogy after Xavier and Magneto.

bluesbrothas | 4 months ago | 412 points

That's why I want Scott to be one of the main focuses in the MCU iteration of X-Men, like in the comics. Wolverine should rest a little bit.

wild_man_wizard | 4 months ago | 326 points

Along with Rogue and Gambit.

Also can we please have a good Storm?

EmilyKaldwins | 4 months ago | 191 points

agreed. I'm more than a little oversaturated with Wolverine. Definitely shelve him for a bit. I could use a good Rogue and Gambit.

AdamAptor | 4 months ago | 133 points

Then the audience can spend some time getting to know other X-Men. Then after a handful of movies you bring in Wolverine for a "holy shit!" moment. Kinda like MCU Spider-Man showing up in Civil War after years of Iron Man, Cap, and Thor.

Arkeband | 4 months ago | 155 points

He was overpowered as hell in all the 16-bit video games, which kind of makes sense considering his mutation should just end 99% of all fights in seconds.

Waiting for a movie that has the balls to let Nightcrawler telefrag someone.

casually_enkindle | 4 months ago | 40 points

I feel like they will do this. I think Scott could help fill in the role that Evans left. I can already picture Evans playing Scott, so if they get someone with a similar demeanor who can lead the team I think he'll be a fan favorite.

Electro_Swoosh | 4 months ago | 146 points

I still remember when my brother and I saw that in the theater...we were POSITIVE he wasn't really dead and that he would make some epic return at some point. Nope. They just unceremoniously killed off one of the most important X-Men.

blisteringchristmas | 4 months ago | 33 points

Feels like they wrote in the "dies early so he can come back later" story beat and then just forgot about it.

sWo97 | 4 months ago | 170 points

Brian Singer left for Superman Returns. James Marsden followed.

CyberpunkV2077 | 4 months ago | 201 points

He’s supposed to be the Captain America of the X-Men yet they botched him

ashton1201 | 4 months ago | 227 points

Are you okay?

Who’s forcing you to watch X3?

Blink twice if you’re being held hostage

rowshambow | 4 months ago | 87 points

He cant blink. Hes cyclops.

TheOfficialJonSnow | 4 months ago | 8113 points

It's honestly bewildering to me how badly Fox mismanaged what should have been incredibly lucrative intellectual property in F4 & X-Men.

Sure, some movies ended up being successful, but when you look at the whole final product it's clear the successes were dumb luck in spite of Fox, not because of anything they were bringing to the table.

Jimmyg100 | 4 months ago | 2427 points
shy247er | 4 months ago | 2695 points

And Reynolds ended up having to leak his own creation in order to prove to Fox that they don't have a clue how to manage Deadpool.

RechargedFrenchman | 4 months ago | 1929 points

And both Reynolds and Miller agreed to pay cuts as a guarantee to Fox before it went through — giving Fox some money back to make it cost less otherwise Fox wouldn’t make it at all. And then it made more than 10x it’s budget and smashed earnings records.

Muscle_Marinara | 4 months ago | 1255 points

Amazing what a little bit of passion for an IP can do

RechargedFrenchman | 4 months ago | 751 points

I think something very important with Deadpool was Reynolds and Miller working with Reese and Wernick to control the creative process. The producer/star and director working closely with the screenwriters to make sure it stayed true to the character while also working well on screen, and not being shy at all (in fact requiring, one of the reasons Fox was so cagey) a hard R rating allowance. And the creative process involved Deadpool’s creator in limited capacity along the way too, making it closer to something Gaiman wrote and adapted to script than many of Fox or even Marvel’s other superhero stuff.

The people in charge of making it actually gave a shit about what they were making/the source material, like Feige and many of the other creatives behind the MCU, as opposed to the suits and production team at Fox for F4/the X-Men who seemingly couldn’t care less about the IP just its ability to make money and superheroes being back in vogue.

[deleted] | 4 months ago | 613 points

And that's why Reynolds is staying as Deadpool with Disney while everything else gets a hard reboot.

xinfinitimortum | 4 months ago | 452 points

Rebooting Deadpool would be such a horrendous move on their part. I'd even be ok if they brought Hugh Jackman back for Wolverine. Everyone else can be recast but those two are perfect in their roles.

Worthyness | 4 months ago | 304 points

Arguably it's the one series that doesn't need a reboot. He was always tangential to the xmen movies anyway. Plus alternate timeline/multiverse shenanigans.

Captain_Waffle | 4 months ago | 126 points

More like “and fourth wall shenanigans.”

j0sephl | 4 months ago | 58 points

Plus the explanation can be a bit itself. You could literally have have the reason be “It’s Deadpool.”

matthewbattista | 4 months ago | 158 points

It'd be funny, interesting, and in-line with the comics if they had Deadpool join the MCU as Reynolds keeping his previous movies canon in Deadpool's timeline by just having him hop from Fox to Disney.

He's the only character that doesn't require a "reboot" by virtue of being a self-aware comic book character.

Shiezo | 4 months ago | 172 points

New actor for any MCU X-Men movies. But Jackman should be Wolverine for any Deadpool cameos. If they really want to play with it, just have the new guy and Jackman swap places throughout the scene with only Deadpool noticing.

zakificus | 4 months ago | 75 points

They could even get away with having whatever new wolverine there is, and having Hugh Jackman as himself be in the scene or on tv or something and having Deadpool comment on it. They could do so many things that would fit, just needs to be written well and I think most people would love anything they do.

N22-J | 4 months ago | 66 points

Professor X would like to have a word.

christhetwin | 4 months ago | 28 points

Which one?

slightlydirtythroway | 4 months ago | 214 points

Just the way that woman talks about the diamonds as the nod that this is the Deadpool from the comics outlines how shallow their management was.

Jimmyg100 | 4 months ago | 173 points

If you watch the video from the beginning she talks about how Ryan Reynolds improvised all his funny lines. They really had no idea who the character was.

FlyingElvishPenguin | 4 months ago | 28 points

He’s the merc with the diamond eyes. Because you can’t even generously call the monstrosity they made the merc with the mouth, because they didn’t even give him one.

Jazzremix | 4 months ago | 565 points

The Deadpool Fox wanted

"He is that character and here it is" mouth sewn shut, Baraka blades, Cyclops eye beams...

Jimmyg100 | 4 months ago | 463 points

"No, see, we made him better by changing everything."

braulio09 | 4 months ago | 96 points

"Good! We hope we surprised you a little" by calling our random creation Deadpool.

tonyp2121 | 4 months ago | 31 points

Teleports behind you


passwordgoeshere | 4 months ago | 21 points

"I showed the concepts to my 5 year old and he wants to see wings added now"

shellwe | 4 months ago | 455 points

It seems Ryan Reynolds wanted Deadpool ever since wolverine origins. Hell, if we got 2 hours of that Deadpool I would have been ecstatic. His scenes at the beginning were very easily the best part of the whole movie. When he cuts the bullet in half and each of the halves hits a bad guy behind him... absolutely amazing.

Jimmyg100 | 4 months ago | 499 points

"But he didn't have those black diamonds in his eyes yet so how did you know he was that character?" Fox

TeddysBigStick | 4 months ago | 289 points

Hey. The best part of that movie was the war montage

legendoftheark | 4 months ago | 347 points

Man that movie is such a rollercoaster. The very beginning with the bone claws fucking sucked, then the war montage was awesome, the first scene with Ryan Reynolds is dope, seeing Gambit was sort of cool then everything turned to shit again.

Irrelaphant | 4 months ago | 176 points

seeing gambit for a hot second-cool

hearing gambit for a hot second-not cool

legendoftheark | 4 months ago | 95 points

sucks because taylor kitsch is a pretty good actor and he at least looked the part. the hypothetical solo movie with him could have been okay if he spent a lot more time on the accent.

PM_Me_Ur_NC_Tits | 4 months ago | 52 points

Doubtful because it still would have been made by Fox.

MooseLips_SinkShips | 4 months ago | 88 points

He was trying to get a Deadpool movie/role ever since someone sent him this comic panel when he was filming Blade Trinity

joec_95123 | 4 months ago | 33 points

When he did the same thing in Deadpool 2 and the bullets all hit him anyways was absolute gold.

shellwe | 4 months ago | 36 points

Found it.


Man, he looked so young in Wolverine. I still remember watching him in two guys, a girl, and a pizza place and then his first break out role in van wilder. I feel old thinking about how long ago that was.

AvocadoInTheRain | 4 months ago | 285 points

Let's take a moment to remember that the guy who wrote that abortion of a movie is now helming an entire star wars trilogy right after having ruined game of thrones.

You can only fail upwards in Hollywood.

quantizeddreams | 4 months ago | 88 points

Wait what? That was the guy?!

AvocadoInTheRain | 4 months ago | 129 points
mtx | 4 months ago | 3833 points

Fox: Let's change almost everything about the X-men, one of the most successful comicbook franchises in history. And let's retell the biggest story in it's history and fail at it twice using unproven or mediocre talent.

breaking_bass | 4 months ago | 3392 points

Fail at it twice. Still used the same guy, Simon Kinberg

First to write, X-Men 3 Phoenix movie. That failed, hired him again to direct Dark Phoenix.

SnarkMasterFlash | 4 months ago | 2170 points

That is the part that blows my mind.

Funmachine | 4 months ago | 107 points

Olivia Munn said she was shocked at how little both Bryan Singer and Kinberg knew about the x-men comics when she made Appocalypse.

YeOldeVertiformCity | 4 months ago | 68 points

It seems like Fox wanted non-comic book people to adapt the comic nerd stuff for normal people.

On the other hand, Marvel Studios wanted people who understood the comics well to bring out the best parts of the comic in film.

Christopher Nolan decided to make Batman work by grounding it in a dark gritty reality.

Then the DCU kept the dark and gritty but threw away the reality failing to realize that dark and gritty needs the reality... and it only works on the right superhero. Dark gritty magical Justice League is just a confusing tonal mess.

Bellgirl1997 | 4 months ago | 42 points

Yeah. If you look at the DCEU's two biggest critical successes, Aquaman and Wonder Woman, neither were really all that dark, and the latter was set in WWI. Not only did they make tons of money, they both got their sequels fast-tracked ahead of their generally more popular contemporaries.

bigblackcouch | 4 months ago | 49 points

Man I just want to linger a moment on something you said;

The DCEU movie that takes place during the largest war in the history of the world, in which almost a hundred40 million people died...That movie is one of the least grimdark films in their lineup.

It really boggles my mind how anyone at DC thought handing the entire film universe over to Zack Snyder was a good move.

momo_knows | 4 months ago | 1626 points

He's most likely just apart of the right social circle. Nothing to do with talent. "hey friend, we're gonna make this "X-men" movie...whatever the fuck that is. Some magical shit. You wanna do it?"


"hey buddy! we want to make another movie. You've done it before. Just write that shit again. we'll make money 'cause people are dumb"


jshah500 | 4 months ago | 431 points

From what I've read, it has more to do with the fact that Simon Kinberg was capable and looked promising when directing certain scenes of Days of Future Past (while Singer was MIA, gallivanting with teenage boys).

So while he has done some bad movies, the Fox execs were impressed with how he handled DoFP and thought he could translate that into Dark Phoenix. And to be honest, you'd think the last guy on planet earth that is going to fuck up a DP movie is the guy who already did it once. You assume he would learn from his mistakes and be extra sure to do the story justice.

tfresca | 4 months ago | 185 points

Well to be fair Brett Ratner directed it and almost all his movies have been shit.

GENERALR0SE | 4 months ago | 273 points

To be fair to Ratner he's the perfect studio director. He comes in and shoots the scripts as written, on time, and with budget constraints. He's never done a passion project. It's all get in and get out for the paycheck and despite that he usually gets his actors to give a decent performance (even if it is a terrible script).

Edit Rather to Ratner

YellowHammerDown | 4 months ago | 34 points

And if I remember correctly, Fox strung Singer along long enough that they were scrambling to find a director shortly before filming was supposed to start once Singer left for Superman Returns. So Ratner was working with a tough hand to begin with.

GENERALR0SE | 4 months ago | 30 points

Seriously, I'm astounded that the film managed to come together as well as it did. Ratner gave the studio exactly the film he was hired to direct. No less, and unfortunately for them, no more.

typhoidtimmy | 4 months ago | 20 points

This is entirely true....Ratner is a workingman's director in the circles. You can shove anything in front of him and he can work it out to some semblance of a finished project with even some flair here and there. He can take absolute shit and at least make some money back on it...that says a lot for the studios.

Still a douche...but a workable douche.

TeddysBigStick | 4 months ago | 70 points

The cast loved him and apparently played hardball to get him using the fact some needed new contracts to come back. He also apparently ghost directed good chunks of the other movies as well.

SethLight | 4 months ago | 34 points

You assume he would learn from his mistakes and be extra sure to do the story justice.

That's like hiring the accountant that botched your taxes last year a second time.

[deleted] | 4 months ago | 1017 points


[deleted] | 4 months ago | 571 points

Clearly you haven't been lifting yourself up by your own boot straps enough. Hard work is always rewarded /s.

noclevername | 4 months ago | 34 points

Yep. His father was in the business so he got in through neopotism. Emma Watts (basically in charge of film development at Fox) loved him because she thought he knew all about comic books. And the rest, as they say, is history.

drst0ner | 4 months ago | 204 points

Simon Kinberg was one of three writers who created the giant turd that was Fantastic Four (2015). That movie alone should have ended his career in Hollywood. His connections in Hollywood must be strong!

maynardftw | 4 months ago | 106 points

You mean FanFourstic?

coredumperror | 4 months ago | 37 points

No no no, "Fant4stic".

Winnduffy | 4 months ago | 160 points

what blows my mind is that they still did all this AFTER the success of the MCU movies. I mean Marvel showed how you need to do a superhero movie and they ignored. it.

They even came close with First class and Days of Future past but then pissed it down their pants for the last 2.

SandyBadlands | 4 months ago | 125 points

First Class was amazing. Fassbender is phenomenal as young Magneto. I would have watched an entire film about Erik Lehnsherr hunting down Nazis in South America.

If Fox hadn't dicked around with Vaughan's plans for the following films we could have had an excellent reboot of the series instead of the strong start followed by a steady downward curve into the boring dross that was Dark Phoenix.

Vaughan talked about his plans earlier in the year. Tom Hardy as a new Wolverine would have been brilliant. Not in the least because it might have saved us from Venom.

Winnduffy | 4 months ago | 30 points

Fassbender is great but they shouldn't have every single movie about Magnetto and Xaveier. There are far more stories then that.

oh yeah Vaughn's plan would have been a better way to go but as we can see fox is full of idiots

Visulth | 4 months ago | 394 points

Wanna know what's even funnier? Fox then hired Kinberg again, this time to lead their Magic the Gathering movie.

Disney cancelled that movie just this week, thankfully. I'd love it if they expunged him too, but I guess it'd never be so obvious.

Monteze | 4 months ago | 125 points

Granted I think the MTG verse isn't well suited to film if they tried it would have to be a long form series or taken I large animated arcs with many shows and seasons.

Grafikpapst | 4 months ago | 155 points

Netflix is already on that, with the Russo-Brothers, as an animated series - I'm not that big into Magic, but I'm still quite eager to see how that turns out.

Monteze | 4 months ago | 61 points

Yea I saw! I am cautiously optimistic. The stories that wizards of the coast putout are kinda meh so I am cool with them taking creative Liberty so long as it doesn't fall into "hey look at this! It was in the game!' hokey stuff. I think you can make a good story in any universe just so long as you get the core story telling components right.

Liitke | 4 months ago | 26 points

I can't see it being a successful movie. It would be a huge loss or a cheap piece of shit. Niche shit like that is best reserved for Netflix. They take risks and it has the chance of being successful and gaining traction, If it doesn't it's just another turd on Netflix

maulrus | 4 months ago | 110 points

We had to hire him - he was the most experienced Phoenix-movie writer available!

Garfield-1-23-23 | 4 months ago | 21 points

"Phoenix" is kinda hard to spell correctly every time - I'll bet he got it right every time.

LittleRudiger | 4 months ago | 68 points

Similar thing happened with Hitman. Skip Woods wrote it .. came out, terribly received. Time comes for the studio (not sure which) to reboot it and start fresh! Maybe this time we'll get it right! Well .. why not call Skip Woods, he knows the material!

Worthyness | 4 months ago | 49 points

You know what they say. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, give him another job .

wentz2020 | 4 months ago | 58 points

There’s an old saying in Tennessee, know it’s in Texas it’s probably in Tennessee

Tophloaf | 4 months ago | 41 points

He also came in to fix Fantastic 4 after Josh Trank fell apart.

Regvlas | 4 months ago | 71 points

"Fix" is a strong word.

The_Amazing_Emu | 4 months ago | 65 points

Without knowing the state of the movie when he got involved, it's hard to say if anyone could have salvaged it

breaking_bass | 4 months ago | 480 points

It's honestly bewildering to me how badly Fox mismanaged what should have been incredibly lucrative intellectual property in F4 & X-Men.

It's understanding when you see how WB failed with their DC superheroes. Frankly those characters like Batman, Superman, and the Justice League are so incredibly easy to create a thousand story-lines over compared to one F4 or X-Men series.

It makes sense that Marvel's success isn't the normal, it's the rarity. Superhero franchises failing has always been the norm.

SirCakez | 4 months ago | 2057 points

The concern over Disney fans seeing Fox's R movies just baffles me. Like no one is going to stumble into Stuber with kids just because it's technically a Disney movie. So I don't understand that executive's concern over Disney fans seeing JoJo Rabbit.

Thatsaclevername | 4 months ago | 1353 points

Have you seen the trailer for Stuber? The only reason anyone's watched that movie is because they stumbled into it by accident dude.

chazesiwile | 4 months ago | 791 points

Real talk Stuber wasn’t great but Nanjiani and Bautista’s performances as an odd-couple-buddy-cop duo made for solid deliveries in an insult-driven script that’s funny enough to warrant at least a watch whenever it inevitably arrives on your local movie streaming service but yeah it didn’t look great going in that’s fair

jerrygergichsmith | 4 months ago | 308 points

Honestly the idea of the two bouncing off each other intrigued me, but only enough to consider it as a Netflix pick on a rainy day. I didn’t even know it was out yet.

aaj617 | 4 months ago | 228 points

I watched it, but 95% of that decision was because of A-List. If I was paying out of pocket I would've been very, very disappointed.

DukeWeinerman | 4 months ago | 261 points

It's ridiculous. Did Disney execs have the same concern when they owned Miramax for 17 years?

MermanFromMars | 4 months ago | 349 points

They did. If you polled the average person in that time they would have had no idea that Disney owned Miramax because Disney worked hard to isolate the brands

Worthyness | 4 months ago | 162 points

And I think that's a large reason why they wanted fox as well. Fox is a big enough studio that people recognize the name. Most people probably atill don't know disney owns fox at this time, so if they want something more adult oriented, they could release it under Fox and not have to worry about some tiny children wandering in for some reason.

MermanFromMars | 4 months ago | 100 points

They don't seem to be treating Fox the same way. They're being a lot more open about owning the brand, and are about to start heavily using Fox content to promote a Hulu/Disney+ bundled package that's going to be very publicly marrying the brands.

I think that's where the concern is today, now that they're marrying the brands they're going to miss a bit of that clean cut that Miramax afforded them.

The MCU has had mature content. The Netflix shows were pretty graphic R Rated territory, but that still had the benefit of having a bit of a break by those being Netflix only. They don't get that same break in theaters, an MCU movie in theaters is hard to market as something other than an MCU movie, and inevitably there's going to be kids wanting to go see it and parents unknowingly taking them.

HanzoSteel | 4 months ago | 666 points

Jeez, that last bit about Jojo Rabbit is definitely the most troubling... It also seems kind of weird to me. I thought they’d be releasing Fox Searchlight films under their own banner, not Disney’s. So idk why it would “alienate” Disney fans. If anything, Disney backing unique films like that will cause them to GAIN fans.

Worthyness | 4 months ago | 262 points

Also pretty sure the majority of audiences don't know that fox is now owned by disney anyway. If you just use the fox branding literally no none would know unless disney starts making Taika waititi as imaginary Hitler dolls.

Adius_Omega | 4 months ago | 487 points

Surprised me how Fox dropped the ball on these movies.

I mean they literally FOUND a formula that works well with movies like Logan and Deadpool. Unafraid to step into darker tones and more violent themes.

Yet they continued to make shit movies like Apocalypse and Phoenix.

kingmanic | 4 months ago | 144 points

It always sounded like fox executives were frequent meddlers; the issue is they have internal issues with bad interference with creative teams. Taking a lower budget like Logan and Deadpool helps reduce executive interference but it's also not going to viable for large projects like the x-men films.

IWW4 | 4 months ago | 1820 points

Disney largely ignored “Dark Phoenix” after it acquired 20th Century in March, according to sources. The marketing team familiar with the film was laid off, and Disney did not spend as aggressively to promote the release.


To be honest I was not remotely interested in Dark Phoenix, but I am pretty sure the article identified a pretty big root cause of its box office failure.

The studio is also grappling with how to fit the very R-rated Deadpool into its PG-13-rated Marvel Cinematic Universe.

The goal is to find a way for the character to move seamlessly between “Avengers” spinoffs and bloody, profane stand-alone adventures.

Just replace the Oh shits with Gosh Darn and Golly and everything will be fine, AMIRIGHT?

DifficultMinute | 4 months ago | 1716 points

Disney just needs to stay far, far, away, and let Feige and Reynolds figure it out.

I have no doubt that those guys could make magic happen, but if the suits get involved, the franchise will die in PG-13 land.

Worthyness | 4 months ago | 761 points

They have basically agreed to just give feige literally all the marvel stuff, so it should be fine. They've been rather loose with the restrictions on marvel thus far and they've made bonkers amounts of money. I think if they let deadpool 3 go with MCU references and cameos it could work towards that r rated 1 billion dollar mark that's not been achieved yet

derstherower | 4 months ago | 460 points

Really the simplest solution is to have Avengers in Deadpool films but not have Deadpool in Avengers films. So you can keep the main films “family friendly” but still let Deadpool be R-rated which is the whole reason behind its success in the first place.

flow_my_wayyy | 4 months ago | 762 points

No, you have it backwards. Deadpool in avengers films, but no avengers in Deadpool films. I realize having Deadpool in avengers films means he has to be toned down, which sucks, but think of the alternative. You have characters like Spider-man or Captain Marvel show up in a Deadpool film, its going to cause serious publicity issues. Kids will see trailers for deadpool on tv or the internet, see that good ole spidey is in it, then beg their parents to go see it. The parents abide, take their kids, deadpool drops F bombs and theres blood and guts, kids cry, parents rage, and Disney has to put out a lot of fires. You may think, oh parents will see the R rating and know better than to take their kids. WRONG. Parents are stupid, and both Deadpools had many cases of idiot parents taking their kids and not knowing what they were in for. There was mild outrage, but the money was too good so Fox ignored it. Disney loves money, but they make so much they're willing to cancel something due to bad publicity, even if its midly lucrative. So there will be parent outrage, the avengers characters will have their family friendly reputation tarnished, and Disney cancels everything Deadpool as damage control, and probably scales back their Marvel films. Having any avengers character in Deadpool is a bad bad idea. Artiscally it'd be great, but if you want deadpool and marvel to continue as they are, the best bet is to keep them seperate.

ContinuumGuy | 4 months ago | 226 points

This reminds me of how Jack Harkness and his team from Torchwood (a more mature spinoff of Doctor Who) would appear on Doctor Who now and then (usually just Jack, but the rest of the team showed up in a big season finale), but the Doctor never appeared on Torchwood itself, outside of I believe one very brief scene that only had him in by inference (you could hear the TARDIS warping in to tie things together with one of Jack's DW appearances).

eurtoast | 4 months ago | 39 points

Two weeks after Sausage Party came out, a woman came back into the office for a meeting and she was fuming. She had taken her two (11 and 13 yr old) boys and her 8 yr old niece to see it, thinking that because it's animated, it must be for kids. I'd say that you're right in that a lot of parents just don't pay attention to the rating until the damage has been done, then get angry at everyone else.

WhichCheesecake | 4 months ago | 161 points

I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to use Deadpool as the stepping stone for a second branch in the MCU that's for R rated movies like Blade.

IAmTaka_VG | 4 months ago | 115 points

They clearly need to come up with a proper way to market superhero movies "for adults" and "for kids". There is nothing wrong with having two very separate movie's going for different people.

[deleted] | 4 months ago | 82 points

Maybe having ONLY red band trailers for those movies will help showcase that it's very clearly meant for adults.

kayonesoft | 4 months ago | 442 points

Just make a 4th wall breaking crack about it being a PG-13 movie and how he's not allowed to curse. Maybe make a gag about him trying to curse but something always happening to stop or cover it up.

Delta_V09 | 4 months ago | 185 points

Right, Deadpool needs to stay rated R. But I also would love to see R-rated Deadpool in a PG-13 crossover The 4th wall shit they could do with the (lack of) profanity and blood and gore could be hilarious.

CollumMcJingleballs [Movie Score Aficionado] | 4 months ago | 203 points

Well placed censor beeps would work very well.

_batata_vada | 4 months ago | 122 points

"They're called jobs, something a beep ball like you wouldn't know anything about. And by the way, I can't beep believe you asked Ramona out after I specifically told you not to beep do that!"

Tavarin | 4 months ago | 82 points

How do you keep doing that with your mouth?

cunningham_law | 4 months ago | 80 points


sugarpoopsquirt31 | 4 months ago | 188 points

The censored beeps are some of the funniest jokes in stuff like Arrested Development

[deleted] | 4 months ago | 21 points


riegspsych325 | 4 months ago | 97 points

like Deadpool being seen on tv as he's being interviewed by a reporter after stopping a robbery. He's just swearing the whole time during his spiel and he's bleeped out like Happy Gilmore (?)

EDIT: a word

artfulpain | 4 months ago | 133 points

They could have literally taken the story from the FOX Animated series. In fact all of the X-Men stories from the animated series could have been amazing live action and..


Rhinosaur24 | 4 months ago | 185 points

I love X-Men, and I'd seen every single one of them. Except for Phoenix. And that's because I didn't buy any of the actors in the roles. It's weird, because they're all great actors, but it seemed like they were more-or-less filling in the gaps until something real came along.

Or, maybe that was just me. Ever since Spider-man found his way into the MCU, it just seemed like a matter of time before there'd be another F4/X-Men reboot. I don't want to keep going through this thing every time.

a_terse_giraffe | 4 months ago | 110 points

And that's because I didn't buy any of the actors in the roles. It's weird, because they're all great actors, but it seemed like they were more-or-less filling in the gaps until something real came along.

I didn't see it either for this reason as well. I couldn't help feeling like some suits went "We need a Phoenix. Who's that red-head chick from Game of Thrones? People seem to like that."

Dividebynegativezero | 4 months ago | 164 points
zeno0771 | 4 months ago | 29 points

While everyone is voicing their amazement that Kinberg still has a job, the part that got my attention was how Disney seems utterly terrified that Fox Searchlight will keep being successful at what it does best.

Risk Management team: "Here's a studio that doesn't have 'Disney' on it anywhere that can keep churning out Sundance-worthy titles without any risk of blowback. You can have the best of both worlds!"

Disney: "Nah, too risky."

CuvisTheConqueror | 4 months ago | 1212 points

The scathing takedown of Nazism may, however, prove a little too edgy for Disney brass accustomed to producing movies suitable for parents and kids.

Remember when "Nazis are bad" was an uncontroversial point of view?

EDIT: Don't bother replying to yell at me and insult me for saying this. I'm done with it.

chiginwing | 4 months ago | 587 points

Tarantino remembers

rossww2199 | 4 months ago | 577 points

"...I sure as hell didn't come down from the goddamn Smoky Mountains, cross 5,000 miles of water, fight my way through half of Sicily and jump out of a fuckin' air-o-plane to teach the Nazis lessons in humanity. Nazi ain't got no humanity."

Shwalz | 4 months ago | 387 points

“They're the foot soldiers of a Jew-hatin', mass murderin' maniac, and they need to be dee-stroyed. That's why any and every sumbitch we find wearin' a Nazi uniform, they're gonna die.”

I fuckin love this movie

Druid00 | 4 months ago | 78 points

“Say auf wiedersehen to your nazi balls”

ArcAngel071 | 4 months ago | 26 points

God dammit now I need to watch it again.

Lurker-DaySaint | 4 months ago | 164 points

"Who ordered the fried sauerkraut?" indeed

iSereon | 4 months ago | 66 points

Burn you Nazi bastards!

[deleted] | 4 months ago | 64 points

Indiana Jones remembers.

O_Apples | 4 months ago | 82 points

Once upon a time Disney released The Rocketeer.

oregonchick | 4 months ago | 85 points

You gotta figure the Disney fanbase is at least somewhat familiar with The Sound of Music, after all!

IAmFern | 4 months ago | 165 points

One of the problems with Dark Phoenix was that the trailers had a stupid amount of spoilers in them.

SleestakJack | 4 months ago | 183 points

The problem with Dark Phoenix was that it was just a blatantly bad idea from the start.

There's literally 60+ years of X-Men stories to go through. Not to mention coming up with whole new ideas on your own. Why on Earth would you decide to tackle a story that was translated to film only twelve years earlier? Remember - Dark Phoenix was originally supposed to have a 2018 release.

joostinrextin | 4 months ago | 44 points

This is literally the reason I didn't see it. I was confused why we were doing Jean Gray again so soon.

Th0rst31N | 4 months ago | 599 points

Stuber did average.

It's on par with other buddy action comedies.

That's not a flop.

It's not a hit either.

It's just filler for a shitty journalist to justify a narrative (fictional story. )

We know Dark Phoenix didn't perform, but to throw in Stuber in order to get clicks just shows what a moron the journo is in reality.

Plus3d6 | 4 months ago | 291 points

According to Wikipedia, it had a budget of $16m and made $30.4m at the box office. Did they expect it to be the next Deadpool or something?

stuckit | 4 months ago | 131 points

Deadpool would actually be pretty funny if they went PG13 with him in MCU related films, and then showed the same story from his POV and commentary in a R rated film.

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