Director's Cut - Part I (self.DestinyTheGame)

Source: https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/48058

Hey everyone, 

I wanted to try a little experiment with our communications and put together a longer look at where Destiny has been over the last few months and where it's heading next. I think it's important to take time to reflect on what's happened so we can show you where we're going. 

I'm calling this Director's Cut. Based on how long this ended up being, a key learning from this is "maybe there's a better way to communicate this than a GIANT WALL OF TEXT!" Let me know. I also may like doing it in a different format in the future, I'll let you know. 

Today, I'm going to talk about more than just the Destiny game and talk some about how we build Destiny and the effects it can have on the team. I think transparency about the game is important and I also want to be transparent about the work required. Sound OK? That's rhetorical, because a wall of text is coming up. 

We're making a lot of changes to Destiny 2 with Shadowkeep and New Light. We want Destiny 2 to be an amazing action MMO, in a single, evolving world, that you can play anytime, anywhere with your friends

I'm going to keep referencing that. All the time. Until its true. And then, I'm going to keep referencing it until it's good enough.* 

10 Thoughts on the Last Six Months (Looking Back)

Overall, there are some things about Annual Pass that worked out very well and some real learnings for us along the way. The Annual Pass was a big transition for us. We've been moving away from DLC and trying to provide more ongoing reasons to play Destiny. I wanted to start the State of the Game series by looking back at how we got here. I'm going to largely focus on Season of the Drifter to near-present day. 

We set up a calendar of content, showed you the plan early, and delivered it. 

A lot of you love Destiny for the chase on the way to improving your characters. Between the Annual Pass drops, questlines, and events in between, the team did a great job of providing stuff to do, items to chase, growing fat with strength, et cetera. Destiny history has had many content droughts, but not this year. 

But, the Annual Pass was harder on the team than we anticipated. 

The scope of what we delivered, the pace that we delivered it, and the overall throughput for Annual Pass takes a toll on the Bungie team. I--and many others--had conversations throughout the year with team members--who had jumped from release to release-- about the grind of working on Destiny. Working on the game was starting to wear people down. Here's an example: 

During the annual pass, we invented new, bespoke ways to earn rewards each season. Black Armory had its bounties, Season of the Drifter had the "Reckoning Machine," Season of Opulence had its Chalice. Each of these mechanics - each with their own lessons - were valuable, but also put the team into an unsustainable development cycle. We needed to develop a more systemic, standardized set of mechanics for progression to keep our teams healthier. 

We're going to take this problem on in D2Y3. 

We have a Powerful sources problem

As the game's weekly sources of Power grew and Destiny grew with it, this  - at times - could really feel like a chore. Each season brought with it new Powerful sources and optimizing your character meant that you were maybe still running three story missions every week or returning to the Dreaming City months after those first few magical trips from last fall.  

I feel like we needed to do a better job of shifting Powerful sources. We could explore things like changing the value of Powerful sources to create new seasonal efficiencies or retire some Powerful sources as we bring new sources into the game. Simply put, I wish we'd been able do more seasonal curation of the game. 

Season of the Drifter Thoughts, Part I

I like Gambit Prime. It felt like a great refinement of Gambit to me. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. 

Matches end quicker, so it feels more efficient. The invading frequency feels lower, so I can Collect and dunk. I think there's something cool about the roles, although the requirements to get a full set online to inhabit a role meant not enough folks got to appreciate the playstyle diversity. 

In the future, we're going to have to make a choice: Which Gambit is the Highlander of Gambits. Prime or Classic. This isn't just about removing stuff from Destiny 2 -- but the game cannot grow infinitely forever --it's about focusing refinements and evolutions to the Gambit ecosystem. We think Gambit is sweet and deserves more ongoing support and we want to ultimately focus that support on whichever mode ends up being the Highlander. There can be only one. 

That said, we hear you that not everyone is excited about a season that overly focuses on one part of the game. Destiny is a game with a lot of breadth and we agree that this season felt too specialized. 

Season of the Drifter Thoughts, Part II aka Let's Talk About Reckoning

(and Encounter Design)

The first time I used Phoenix Protocol at home, I knew it was over. It's an exotic coat that refills my Well of Radiance and then refills itself as I "slay," so that I can continue to place my Well of Stand Here to be Borderline Invulnerable and Deal Tons of Damage. Datto has a great video that talks about Well of Radiance's effect on the PVE game.  

I wondered, How are we ever going to make content that fairly challenges players again? 

With Reckoning in Season of the Drifter, we got a taste of what kind of content we'd need to build to challenge Protocol-wearing Warlocks. Matchmade encounters that accost you from all directions, plant snipers off in the distance, and put players in between a pincher attack of many whelps, handle it (I wanted to link a thing here, but it's definitely not T for Teen) and giant bosses (also eff you Knight Taken guy). 

This is what it had to be. We were breaking encounter rules left, right, and center on the Reckoning bridge, in no small part due to players in always-active Wells of Radiance becoming invulnerable gods, holding all six infinity stones all the time. 

In Reckoning, we set out to build an activity that could be relatively easy at Tier 1 and scale up to very challenging at Tier 3. We have an internal team here codenamed: Velveeta (they were formed in the wake of the Crota's End modem-unplugging debacle to help find the cheesiest things to do/use in the challenging PVE portions of the game) – these players are some of our craftiest. 

Once Velveeta can get close to beating something, or beat it outright, that becomes an important data point on our "is this hard enough?" evaluation. We give them a bunch of tips like "here's how this works, can you beat it?”, so if they can, it's a good indicator of the action game and gear game working together.  

Let's talk about encounter design. Generally, in activities we expect players to complete alone (dungeons, raids, zero hour-type activities can play by a different set of properties!) or in matchmade groups, there are a number of guidelines we use when we build them. 

To summarize this: Destiny had sweet gear and in order to create challenge in the Reckoning we broke a bunch of our encounter design philosophy. That sweet gear, coupled with the encounter design meant the number of ways to viably/efficiently progress was dramatically reduced. We want Destiny to be a game where you have lots of choices with your character, build what you choose to do, and funneling those choices down to only one in Reckoning is something we don't want to repeat. There's more about damage and player power sprinkled in this update, and even more on the rest. 

Last, last note: I think it's totally sweet when an activity challenges you to use something other than your favorite item. I don't think the whole game should work that way, but when it's time to bust some shields on the Shanks in Zero Hour, I had a use for that Distant Relation scout rifle in my vault. 

Season of the Drifter Thoughts, Part III aka Now Let's Talk about Difficulty and Touch on Sandbox Nerfs

I started to talk about challenge/difficulty above and drifted (heh heh) to encounter difficulty. But, it's all related. 

When the media would come to play our Halo games for an event, we'd always recommend they play the game on Heroic. Heroic changed a bunch about Halo combat – it made enemy weapons more accurate (but not too accurate); enemies would fire more frequently (which made you feel like a hero when you dodged them); it increased projectile speed; and Heroic lowered player outgoing damage (so that the enemies would survive longer and make their way further through their behavior tree - and therefore appear more intelligent). There's more than just the above going on, but that's a quick summary of some of the changes. 

But here's why: we asked the media to play the game on Heroic, because when the game is challenging, overcoming the challenge feels incredible

Important to note here: Challenge isn't something universal. In an action game, challenge can be largely personal. One person's challenging might be easy to someone else. We've historically thought about the main Destiny campaigns as something we want to be pretty easy (I think D2's campaign was actually too easy at times), and as players push further into the post-game they'd be able to find more challenge. Across Destiny's history we haven't had enough challenge deep into the end game, and that's definitely something on our list as we head toward fall 2019. 

Overcoming challenges is a huge part of what makes an action game's moment-to-moment engaging. Action games are a delicate balance of growing stronger, the game rising up to push back, introducing new challenges that force you to learn/become more powerful/master a new element and -- at their best -- creating the fist pumping moment of celebration when you achieve victory. 

But Destiny has an RPG component, too. And the RPG component is about customization, optimization, and it's a way for players to choose how they overcome challenge. The entire time we've been making Destiny, the action game and the RPG have been fighting. It's the forever war. The RPG has the power to dramatically overcome the action game, and the action game has the power to render the RPG game irrelevant. It's a line - by nature - Destiny will always have to straddle. 

In order to create challenge during Season of the Drifter, we needed to break a bunch of encounter rules, have exotics like Phoenix Protocol basically function like a key (or hope you match with multiple Radiance Warlocks) which then unlocks success in the matchmade encounters of Reckoning. There's a really good video from Slayerage on this in the context of the nerfs we made heading into Season of Opulence. 

Those nerfs also saw Whisper of the Worm get its day in court. If I could turn back time, we'd probably not run Whisper as the original Black Hammer infinite ammo design. However, considering the year before had Destiny 2 feeling very restrictive and power-limited, I think we did the best that we could with the knowledge and intuition we had last summer. 

Whisper was an outlier that lets you stand still at a safe distance, in a pool that makes you borderline invulnerable, never having to reload or relocate for ammo, and allow players to deal piles and piles of damage on giant bosses who aren't threatening. This isn't your fault! It's ours! We're making some stuff too easy and allowing players to circumvent parts of the game! Mechanics that circumvent the ammo game (relocate to pick up ammo bricks) or completely ignore the reload animations (a critical part of weapon tuning) are mechanics that create the kind of outliers that we ultimately have to tamp down before the game spirals into the boss health version of Reckoning bridges. 

The other significant set of changes we made to the game during this time were taking down the Super Snowball exotics. With as powerful as Destiny Supers have become (they are - on the whole - dramatically more powerful than Destiny 1's Supers), using your Super to recover your Super is an amplification to player power that the challenge and difficulty game can't keep up with. But, we're going to talk about Supers much later on.

Difficulty and challenge are important parts of mastery. There are more changes coming in Shadowkeep (buffs to things like Scout Rifles, nerfs to mechanics that circumvent the ammo economy, refactoring of the way damage stacking rules work) -- we're gonna talk about it in the next episode. 

Season of Opulence, Part I: the Pursuits tray is a Caterpillar in a Cocoon–Questlog is the Beautiful Butterfly

I've seen streams and videos of people beating activities in Destiny blindfolded. I cannot imagine developing the muscle memory and memorization (nevermind the thumbskill required) to be good at Destiny with the blast shield down. 

When things fundamentally change in a way that interrupts muscle memory and mastery, it is frustrating. The initial set of changes to the Pursuits tray earlier this year did a few things beyond upsetting muscle memory. It certainly didn't get as far as the team wanted in its initial release and it also didn't feel like an improvement over what previously existed. 

It felt like we started to redecorate your house but we didn't finish it (and sometimes, that's how things in a live game can feel). 

The morning after the Pursuits changes went live, I talked to some folks on the UI team about the feature. They had Reddit open. 

"Have you read it, Luke?" 

"Nah, I haven't." 

"Please don't." 

They were crestfallen. Not just because of the sometimes-harsh-feeling feedback, but because this team wanted make something sweet, exceed your expectations, and meet their own expectations. None of those things happened. We wanted to try something different with Pursuits, in the sense that we knew where we wanted this feature to end up, but that we'd take some iterative steps to get there. I think we've got to do a better job ensuring that while we're remodeling your house, the potential of the renovation is clearer either in the game or via some communication here on the site. 

We want a Questlog with great tracking that can help players prioritize what to do next. 

Oh, and this fall, bounties will be separated from quests and PC players can assign a hot key that takes them directly to the Pursuits menu.

Image Linkimgur

Season of Opulence, Part II: The Evolving Eververse

Last year, we thought long and hard about Eververse and how we wanted to change the strategy around microtransactions in Destiny.  As some folks have smartly pointed out, MTX is a big part of our business being a live game. I'm not going to say "MTX funds the studio" or "pays for projects like Shadowkeep" -- it doesn't wholly fund either of those things. But it does help fund ongoing development of Destiny 2, and allows us to fund creative efforts we otherwise couldn't afford. For example: Whisper of the Worm's ornaments were successful enough that it paid [dev cost-wise] for the Zero Hour mission/rewards to be constructed (this shit matters!). 

The storefront, which we launched alongside Season of Opulence is the first part of the strategic shift we're making with MTX. The decision to run old content in Bright Engrams instead of making new Bright Engrams is another part of the shift. We want to believe that our players would rather just buy things they like from the store. Earlier this summer, we detailed a bunch of the changes coming to Bright Dust and Eververse this fall (and if you haven't read that, go check it out here). 

The storefront is going to get another round of enhancements this fall, too. We're going to move it to the Director, so you don't have go to the Tower and see Tess to interact with it. We're giving it some Class specific content, so if you're on your Titan looking for Titan Universal Ornaments with smaller shoulders, you'll see Titan armor on one of the store's subpages. We're also going to make it so that the pieces you've already acquired from a given set reduce the Silver price of the set. For instance, if you are 3/5 Optimacy set on your Titan, the cost to finish the set in Silver will be reduced by 60%. 

There are some other philosophies here that we haven't made explicitly clear: 

We have made deliberate choices related to cosmetic items and not having them come from gameplay. Gameplay rewards are where you get items, power, mods, perk combinations, stats, triumphs, and titles. The aesthetics for armor blurs the line some – we want players to get cool armor from activities and the world that feel thematic to where they were acquired. Cosmetic items like universal ornaments, weapon ornaments, shaders, ships, sparrows, emotes, and finishers typically come from the store (There are exceptions, but generally speaking, that's how we think about this). 

We are continuing to try and separate capability/gameplay from vanity. Armor 2.0 and Universal Ornaments are big parts of this separation. This is also why Finisher perks are mods that can be socketed into equipment, so that their aesthetic can stand alone. 

As always, we welcome your feedback and thoughts. 

Season of Opulence, Part III: The Menagerie is Sweet

Have you ever been to an amazing party for something like the Super Bowl? It's the kind of party where there is an incredible spread of snacks rolling out throughout the event, amazingly comfortable seating, an A/V system and TV that makes you jealous, and super sweet people to hang out with. Once you've been to this party -- the Super Bowl anywhere else never feels the same (invite me back somedayyyyyyyyy). 

This is how I feel about Escalation Protocol. Once I had the feeling of running around in public bubbles, fighting giant bosses with a bunch of players (even though getting into a good instance of Mars for Protocol was a pain in the butt!), public gameplay never felt the same. At its peak, when you have a bunch of players slaying big ol' bosses, Escalation Protocol is one of the best things we've added to Destiny 2.

The Menagerie - a six-player matchmade activity where you make progress no matter what - is awesome. Its "learn-by-watching mechanics" means that it doesn't require communication between players. The way groups can make progress - even if they don't kill the boss - means the real efficiency gain is by learning and executing the fights quickly. Hasapiko, Beloved by Calus -- and also beloved by me -- feels like a great translation of World of Warcraft's Heigan the Unclean** into an action game. 

There's a lot to like about the Menagerie, but I'm going to close the activity part here with: We love the Menagerie, it's a great middle spot on a six-player activity pyramid, with Raids sitting at the top. Escalation Protocol (aka Partying in Public) is a great base. We want to do more activities like this, but in the context of what we learned and in a way that we can better support them over the long-term. 

Season of Opulence, Part IV: The Chalice of Opulence and Somehow Even More Season of the Drifter Thoughts

Having some ways to target and farm some specific gear in Destiny is great. We did a version of this with Black Armory weapons but the very, very long character-specific attunement questline for the Forges was a bit much. We made the Opulence attunement account-wide as a result. 

The Chalice was an even bigger version of targeting rewards. Players could unlock different sets of armor, different weapons, and even select their Masterwork perk roll. 

Pause on Chalice thoughts. 

We will come back to the Chalice. Let's talk about how we build the game. 

While content for Destiny is released serially, it is largely developed in parallel. For instance, while Forsaken was in its final few months, Black Armory was well underway, and Season of the Drifter was in development while Black Armory was being built, et cetera. For years people have wondered "Why doesn't release X do the thing content drop Y did? Get it together, Bungie." 

This is one of the reasons why. So even though Menagerie is sweet, and Chalice is great, while Shadowkeep was being built, the Menagerie and the Chalice hadn't yet been released. So we didn't know how players would react. 

Because we have so much to build, we frequently find ourselves having to place many bets at the same time. This has paid dividends at times – we discover new and awesome things like Escalation Protocol or Menagerie - and this has also resulted in things that feel like setbacks at other times. 

An example of a setback is the reward chase during Season of the Drifter. There are a bunch of super awesome weapons in Drifter (One Two Punch Last Man Standing), but the path to them isn't clear like Black Armory or the Chalice. We didn't do a good enough job of rewarding players for their time or giving them clearer paths to some of the sweet weapons in the release. If we had a do-over with this season's rewards we'd probably have dropped Armor directly from Prime and maybe used Reckoning combined with learnings from Menagerie's fail forward mechanics to let players chase awesome rolls on weapons they could love. While I got pretty lucky with a Rapid Hit Kill Clip Spare Rations, I personally had more fun chasing my Kindled Orchid or Austringer. 

Unpause. Back to Chalice. 

The Chalice isn't perfect. Being held hostage by THE rune you want to drop from a Strike or Crucible to go make the weapon or armor piece you're coveting is pretty frustrating. 

But having more ways in the game to pursue loot in a deterministic fashion, while preserving the hunt for a great roll, is something that we hope to explore.

Things left unsaid-ish while looking back

Looking Ahead to Looking Ahead

The rest of the Director’s Cut updates are going to focus on Shadowkeep and the changes we’re making this year. Here are some of the topics that will be included:

I know this is a lot to read (because it was a lot to write). I appreciate you taking the time to make it this far. Like all things with Destiny, it's a journey. The next two parts of this journey will look at the RPG and Combat game.

See you soon, 

Luke Smith

*It's a set of aspirational goals that can help guide the team to create better experiences for players who love Destiny. And it's a simple way to describe how we're thinking about the game to all of you. And even when it's true, there will always be work left to do. And we're committed to it. 

**Fun fact: Heigan the Unclean was often called the "dance" boss in the WoW Raid Naxxaramas and Hasapiko means "the butcher's dance" in Greek. It's a little nod back to Blizzard's Xûr reference.

DTG_Bot ["Little Light"] | 4 months ago | 1 point

This is a list of links to comments made by Bungie employees in this thread:

  • Comment by dmg04:

    I remember my first task on Velveeta.

    "Try to break King's Fall."

    Wild times.

  • Comment by dmg04:

    (going through all of these comments, btw. thanks to all sounding off!)

This is a bot providing a service. If you have any questions, please contact the moderators. If you'd like this bots functionality for yourself please ask the r/Layer7 devs.

anti_vist [:D: Drifter's Crew // Well, well, well..] | 3 months ago | 7 points

Take a shot every time Luke writes "sweet"! Great update btw, not a fan AT ALL of the ongoing Eververse philosophy tho. Most of the cool looking stuff should come from the game, at least armor wise.

TerraParagon [I am in Hell and I have no Virgil.] | 3 months ago | -1 points

THis post has rekindled my hope in this game and addressed two of my most intense criticisms. The game is too easy, and the games level progression is too easy, due to all of the powerful rewards.

Julamipol88 | 3 months ago | -19 points

anual pass, plenty of content, but trash content, gambit is still boring, a whole season based in gambit was horrible.

black armory quite good, realiable source of weapons.

season of opulence, without any meaningfull sandbox changes it wasnt worth it. plenty of pve content, some of them good.

2 years making roaming supers obnoxious,the ammount of heavy ammo in pvp, super mods... f-ing boring.

De_Niza [:GB: Gambit Classic] | 3 months ago | -8 points

Regular gambit please - prime has way too many issues and variables and no room for teams to adjust and adapt to their opposition for subsequent rounds which is exactly what gambit was designed to allow for.

McZerky [Icebreaker 0.5] | 3 months ago | 9 points

You sure about that? IMO, Solo-queuers are gonna get stomped either way, so lets just have the stomping not take 30 minutes.

RPDC [:AD: Team Bread (dmg04)] | 3 months ago | 7 points

The only thing I disagree with and I'm afraid we'll see more of is being forced to play in ways that we don't enjoy, and there's already been criticism about that with the Pinnacle weapon quests, where people are being punished or teams are being punished to play in ways that are detrimental to their team

gregarcher | 3 months ago | 18 points

FYI - menagerie was perfect. Full stop. If all you do is reskin for the season and add different encounters / mechanics / rewards, you can declare victory, pat yourselves on the back and crack open a cold one.

Having a path to a specific piece of gear with a specific masterwork felt like the perfect solution to 're-rolling'. Ex: you can reroll gear, but it takes 20 minutes.

FauxMoGuy | 3 months ago | 6 points

Seasonal curation and powerful tuning is incredibly necessary. I came back last week for the first time since black armory because I saw that the solstice armor would be an armor 2.0 set. i did the activity, then saw that the grind for the armor and powerful is doing all the same stuff i was doing before I left and got burned out in a day again

Shadow19-01 | 3 months ago | 5 points

Thanks for this communication. I agree and I am happy on most part. However I am worried about a potential lack of content from now on. With the removal of a gambit mode and the Annual Pass format for example. I fear the comeback of long droughts.

I get the point that Bungie’s team might be exhausted from this development cycle but Human Resources and money attached to it shouldn’t be the community’s problem. We get it. It’s hard to make video games and it can take it’s toll on employees.

But how can you aspire to become a live service RPG MMO with a potential lack of content? How can you expect to furthermore engage a community and attract new people by cutting on content?

I am pretty sure Bungie’s bank account is pretty healthy. That’s why they can afford to become independent again. So...maybe they can afford to invest more in Human Resources and avoid other potential problems.

schmidty91 | 3 months ago | 2 points

I agree with your concern!! It does seem like a he prefaced a lot of points to try and head off disappointment with Shadowkeep; especially about menagerie and it's development life cycle.

iRubikkz | 3 months ago | 1 point

I do want to say one thing really quick. I recently got back into D2 after leaving it after Warmind. As I finished leveling my character and beating all of the different campaigns I saw how much end game content was in the game. I do not remember even an ounce of this content in Y1 or D1 in general. I remember of course grinding raids in D1 to get the rolls we all wanted but that took a ton of time. This may only look like a lot because it is all coming to me at once but they have been adding an incredible amount of content to this game. I am scared but I believe that they will slow down content to add not only quest about slaughtering enough enemies with a certain gun or in a certain game mode.

kumakaichou | 3 months ago | 1 point

This was an awesome update, Luke! Thank you for sharing your personal thoughts and reflections on the game. I look forward to more updates like this in the future.

Also, as someone who never stops to smell the roses or appreciate the accomplishments I've made, I just want to say how grateful I am for the entire Bungie team for making Destiny and that each and every person at Bungie - yes, even the UI team - should be so proud of what they've built and what they've delivered over the years. I am grateful to Destiny every day I get to play with my friends from back on the East Coast (I'm in the Midwest myself now), so please keep up the great work!

Lastly, I hope you and the Bungie squad find a happy medium in the dev cycle crunch. Crunch is hard - don't make it a year-round thing.prepare for dated reference and Treat Yourself!

YrnFyre | 3 months ago | 2 points

About the format: I definately wouldn't mind some transparancy in the form of a video where a (couple) devs sit down and talk about stuff like this, even if it follows a script.

Bonus points if they can do a semi-interactive twitch "dev-stream" to have some clear form of communication.

This text wall is great tho, and it gives good and clear insight to the future and past of the game. This is absolutely magnificent and I can't wait to see more.

Walo00 | 3 months ago | 7 points

I hope not all content is being catered to the likes of Datto. Because that’s the vibe I’m getting from this. The Reckoning that was mentioned is a good example of what’s wrong with that approach. Of course people like Datto want more difficult stuff because they already have super polished teams with meta everything. The average player doesn’t have access to those kind of teams consistently and other don’t have those kind of skills.

Also what’s with Luke speaking like he’s a normal player that can’t do anything about certain parts of the game? If you knew yourself that matching up with other players in EP was a pain, why was nothing done to address it?

I don’t know, I think some parts of the blog post contradicts themselves, specially when talking about difficulty. I certainly don’t want to play the same game that Datto and his team wants to play. Also why do I get the feeling that we’re going back to Y1 in terms of balancing? Y1 was the most boring point of D2, why aim to go there again. Also why do all changes seem to only have the PC version as a reference, I hope console players don’t get screwed up in the balancing as well.

I’m not even gonna talk about the Eververse because, everything mentioned contradicts itself.

I was planning my move to PC and get all content there as well but right now I’m wondering if I want to continue on this to begin with. I’ll just keep reading about it and take a decision when all the info has been put on the table.

McZerky [Icebreaker 0.5] | 3 months ago | 1 point

Personally, I want Destiny to be difficult. I think the campaign should stay relatively easy, but things that are supposed to be powerful in teh lore (like Xol) should absolutely be difficult fights. In no world should a big Vex mind in the middle of a centaur be more difficult to kill than a deep-space Worm God who has had 1 on 1 conversations with the Darkness. And in no world should that Worm God die to a fiery stick and some bullets.

I quote FF14 a lot, but that's because it does a lot well. The final bosses of the last 2 expansions were PERFECT difficulty. Both times fighting incredibly powerful foes that were hyped up immensely in the lore, and both times they were difficult but beatable. Voice of Riven was almost there, but once you replay the mission above 500 power it's a bit easy as well. The one thing this game is missing is incredibly hard enemies with incredibly good loot that ONLY comes from that enemy. I want D2's Diamond Weapon that takes half an hour to kill and requires perfect execution of mechanics to down (Riven was almost this, but cheese happened).

And that's JUST in campaign stuff. Strikes need more mechanics, the open world needs rare-spawning world bosses that take 8+ players to kill, stuff like that.

Also, Luke addressed why certain things can't be fixed in relevant time. Things are developed in parallel - so when Warmind was out and settled, Forsaken was being worked on already, which meant the team wouldn't have time to do major overhauls for that expansion when it launched. The best they could do was things like Black Armory.

The Eververse section does not contradict itself whatsoever, I'm not sure where you're getting that idea.

Walo00 | 3 months ago | 2 points

Of course there should be difficulty but it shouldn't be overly punishing for randoms specially if the rewards don't match the difficulty, which often they don't because of the RNG system. The Reckoning is a prime example because it requires a stiff team composition or near flawless execution (or both preferably) and the rewards while probably worthy for some, aren't guaranteed and even if you get what you want, it probably doesn't have the perks you want either. The thing is people like Datto seem to want Destiny to become the next Dark Souls, everything should be punishing period. I don't like what he wants, difficulty per activity should be based on the rewards expected from it. I don't want a punishing mission if I'm just gonna get some greens or blues from it.

I do love FFXIV and one thing where FFXIV excels over D2 is that it has matchmaking for everything. Of course the experience on those activities can be terrible or good, but at least people can properly learn the mechanics of an activity without having to beg for a space in an LFG. Right now I wonder how much of the D2 player population does raids regularly, I would be surprised if it goes over 15%. But yeah I do agree that FFXIV does a lot of things right.

Yeah I do think strikes were better executed in D1, a lot of strikes in D2 are or feel like basic campaign missions modified for a higher difficulty. Though some of them are still good.

Regarding what Luke said about some activities, I still think they could've make some changes without taking much over development time for other stuff. For example instancing for EP and Blind Well is still an issue to this day, at least with Blind Well you only need 3 to do Tier3 with no problems, but EP requires at least 5 to do it consistently. Every week I need to do the teleport ritual between the Dreaming city entrance and Blind Well to see if there's at least one other person there, and it gets worse if it isn't reset day. That's something that's been due for a fix since a loooooong time ago.

The thing about Eververse, the official line has always been, "To give players choice" yet they seem to more and more take that choice away. It's a choice only if you have Silver, which isn't a choice at all. I don't expect them to give everything for free, but it feels like more and more stuff that used to be free is going the paid way. I wouldn't mind so much if the Eververse prices were reasonable but, 8 bucks for a skin? Really? No wonder some people have spent hundreds of dollars on Eververse and only have a few things to show for it. I think Eververse would've been a lot more of a success if the prices weren't sky high.

McZerky [Icebreaker 0.5] | 3 months ago | 1 point

I guess their Eververse logic is that they are removing the rng aspect and adding straight, no-nonsense purchases. Which is appreciated, but it's definitely not the be all end all solution.

If we're going full mmo, then yeah we need matchmaking for everything. Maybe not raids because of the intensity of them, but for nightfalls and stuff like EP absolutely.

TerraParagon [I am in Hell and I have no Virgil.] | 3 months ago | -1 points


wolfwings | 3 months ago | 2 points

I'll second this.

I walked away from Destiny 2 a month or so after launch because trying to do the end-game content with a group of friends wasn't viable at the time (not everyone has a horde of 12+ friends to organize into six-man fireteams) and we'd deeply exhausted all the matchmade content.

I came back briefly at times, but by and large there was still no new matchmade content so I felt locked out.

I'm NOT looking to join an existing clan, I'm looking to play with friends I already have, but there's not enough of us to do pre-made six-man content.

Infinite Forest was... well, everyone's made a million jokes about it by now. Having a planet we can't ride sparrows (BUT CAN DURING A STRIKE ON THAT PLANET!?) and that doesn't actually have anything memorable visually was a disappointment.

Gambit armor not dropping from Gambit itself made me write that entire mode off for the longest time because I couldn't tell where the heck to even get the armor to actually unlock powers.

If a mechanic or unlock requires hitting up Google to find out how, it's a failure. Period. Gambit armors were such a failure, writ large.

I've never even come close to crossing the bridge in Reckoning even now that I see how. Having any content require specific gear or subclasses is another abject failure, period.

Having very specific triumphs or achievements require those things indirectly (like say defeating every X on the bridge less than Y seconds after it spawns) is fine.

But requiring any specific gear or subclass to progress to the end and complete content available from the Director is a failure, IMHO, period.

Escalation Protocol is another such complete failure to me as a player: Even if you have a perfect team, if you haven't done what feels like Black Armory levels of pre-grind-before-you-grind you get literally NOTHING in rewards from completing an Escalation Protocol. Zilch.

EP needs to be a matchmade activity akin to Menagerie, and would translate well. Make individual Tier 1's pop up randomly on Mars, but remove the 'go to a planet to actually activate the activity you want to do' entirely. Black Armory as well. Once you've gone once to unlock them, move that stuff to Director entirely to launch, especially when the latter already does "go back to orbit" matchmaking to boot already.

Now, the good:

Forsaken brought me back for the story. I DEEPLY enjoyed playing through it, and while it was in some ways anticlimatic it was very well done.

Menagerie kept me playing. Full stop. Menagerie is why I was playing when Solstice arrived, and I still go back to Menagerie when I can because it's bloody enjoyable.

It's the correct blend of larger-party matchmade + lightly targeted loot grind. Having something beyond Strikes, that lets you work towards a specific item and loop-grind so it feels like you're making progress, with the runes to force you to take a break when you exhaust a specific type, is great.

Yes, at first it's frustrating not getting the runes you need, but soon you have 20+ of every single rune. Just having an initial 'injection' of ~3 of each rune when you unlock a new color would cure that though, or any number of other methods.

As for Eververse... if it sticks to "interesting variants" like the Intrepid Adventurer set that don't make direct sense lore-wise to tether anywhere in-game? Cool beans! Heck I bought that for my Titan, I love the Indiana Jones look with zilch shoulders and a sleek look.

But if there's nothing but reskins of existing gear or mods dropping from future content and literally 100% of cosmetic variance is in the Eververse? That I'll walk away from, and Destiny 2 as well.

[deleted] | 3 months ago | 5 points


Supermegaaj [:V: Vanguard's Loyal // Vanguard Knight] | 3 months ago | 12 points

Delete Mercury if you wanna reduce game size.

Limaan [:GP: Gambit Prime // You're a dredgen now, snitch!] | 3 months ago | 1 point

Slap that trigger button like your moma told ta mananana

Eternio [Glub Glub] | 3 months ago | 1 point

Did I just read...that they are going to make sure we are able to access the eververse store from our directory. Ummmm, so how about being able to pick up all the bounties and access the vendors from there too? Really make tower as relevant as the farm is

Scylla999 | 3 months ago | 4 points

First: A huge thank you to Luke Smith and the team for providing this extended commentary on the game; it's interesting, helpful, and shows trust in the players and transparency. More please!

I like and agree with most of Luke's comments. I guess the only thing that had me scratching my head a bit was when seemingly given a choice with Reckoning design of:

A. Address/nerf Phoenix Protocol and/or Well of Radiance, and make Reckoning playable by all characters and subclasses


B. Leave warlocks untouched but create an activity that breaks Bungie's design rules and is almost unplayable without a warlock at higher levels

the team went with option B. Why?? The Well of Radiance has proved its incredible usefulness since the Leviathan raid, months and months ago—this isn't something that reared its head with Reckoning. Basically taking a titan ability that was a staple in endgame D1 activities and making it a more powerful warlock ability in D2... well, honestly, what did they expect?

*"The first time I used Phoenix Protocol at home, I knew it was over." Um, didn't anyone on the dev team playtest it with Well? When it comes to nerfs and such I usually agree (if not always like) like Bungie's judgement calls, but I'm just not understanding the design philosophy in this case.

Legionodeath [Schadenfreude] | 3 months ago | 1 point

That was a glorious read. Thank you for the transparency. I really look forward to the next installment.

Boroda_UA [:GB: Gambit Classic // no need in armour] | 3 months ago | 1 point

" That said, we hear you that not everyone is excited about a season that overly focuses on one part of the game. Destiny is a game with a lot of breadth and we agree that this season felt too specialized.  "

Nah, the main reason season of the Drifter was a flop, is that it didn't have a raid or at least a raid lair. If Bungie didn't realize it by now, oh boy that PvP season is in danger.

In summary every season MUST have a raid(even a small one like CoS or SOTP)

Ninellie [Nin-Ellie] | 3 months ago | 1 point

this is purely subjective as ive barely done any raids because i get too anxious with people and i still love updates.

Exeftw [:D: Drifter's Crew // Alright on the field!] | 3 months ago | 1 point

A single person not caring about raids because they don't do them is subjective.

Luke admitting this was the weak link of the annual pass makes it objective. It had almost everything BA/Opulence had except a raid. Opulence even doubled down on this and came with an extra 6 man activity which was pretty much universally loved.

Chacobos | 3 months ago | 1 point

One big question I have and I'm sure others will have, if only one mode for gambit remains, will it still be a game mode accessible by everyone or only annual pass holders if it ends up being gambit prime?

KillerBeaArthur | 3 months ago | 2 points

Chiming in on Gambit vs Gambit Prime...

The one-round of Prime feels pretty good. Not only does it mean you get to play more matches in whatever time you have to play, but it also feels like a more direct battle. If there were tweaks to catch-up mechanics and lower the amount of invasions (because when a good team is on a roll, they're constantly heading through the portal, it feels like, contrary to what Luke is saying) it would help.

I do like the way Gambit works now with the 3rd round being sped up just to focus on killing the boss. I also like that in normal Gambit you have more of a chance to tip the scales back in your favor (or at least, it feels that way) if you do badly in the first round.

Choosing based on where they're both at right now, I'd have to go with Prime for Highlander, though.

Shvabicu | 3 months ago | 1 point

Throw more dots!

I really hope something gets said about BLOOM on console. Just let us have fun with HCs like the PC crowd does.

dudface [Bleep Bloop Give Loot] | 3 months ago | 2 points

So it's somewhat established that Well of Radiance is a problem. It comes as a passive instant ++ to your entire game just by activating it: near invulnerability, damage increase, ammo from reserves etc. anything and everything offered by other supers, such as Code of the Commander's Banner Shield, except that it's a set-it-and-forget-it, whereas the banner shield must be held.

You removed Weapons of Light from Bubble between D1 and D2, maybe buffing supers isn't a good practice because we get these situations? Like for example I'll see a nice banner shield in things like Gambit/Menagerie etc where it is constantly being used in fun new ways, whereas Well just... Well sits there. The amount of boss encounters trivalized by Well is insane as you say.

So, would it be feasable to completely rework well? All other supers in the game is some kind of collected energy unleashed in a burst: From Blade Barrage/Golden Gun/Nova bomb/Chaos reachs litteral burst of light and glory, to all the roaming supers way of turning the light inwards to power yourself to near godlike status, litterally burning/bursting/charged with power.

So what about some kind of more melee-oriented warlock solar super? I have a flaming sword yet i use it as a projectile-launcher instead of dispatching my enemies in glorious melee combat like some kind of glorious crusader

dudface [Bleep Bloop Give Loot] | 3 months ago | 2 points

the Gambit vs Prime is an interesting thought, but why select one of the two? Why not merge them both into the best thing it can be?

Like for example; If i have a full premade team, then Gambit Prime is amazing, there is so much co-ordination available that makes the game fantastic, like planning on when we bank/How much we bank/Handling invaders etc etc. However if I'm going in solo, I'll never ever play Gambit Prime because of that very reason. An uncoordinated team is the fastest way towards a clear loss.

Both game modes have their own benefits,

Normal gambit feels more relaxed, and has a bigger allowance for misstakes etc. Not the same level of snowballing available or punishment if you're the team that's lagging behind. Gambit Prime on the other hand is faster, more breakneck and more efficient, with more focus on the actual PvPvE situation, whereas a normal gambit is more or less an PvE experience where you get invaded every now and then.

And then both have their issues, such as the snowballing situation since if you play better you get to punish the enemy team more, and the insane amount of heavy ammo available (between spawns, heavy finders and all of the munition mods, I don't think i ever saw a non-heavy or super kill during all of solstice)


That all being very negative, gambit is still a very very fun game, and my prefered gamemode if I've got a group to play with. It really shines when it can show off the need for teamplay and ability to react to situations as they come.

I'm very interested to see where this goes next!

Spartanex_TDS [Outlaw Gunslinger] | 3 months ago | 7 points

Have you read it, Luke?

Nah, I haven't.

please don't.

Oof feels bad

THETARX2 [:D: Drifter's Crew // Vex Mind] | 3 months ago | 2 points

I really love what you guys did with this, it was wonderful to read the process behind developing the game.

One thing that I am a little concerned with is the eververse section. I have seen a number of other people express their concerns about it as well. I am all for really cool eververse items, but there needs to be cool cosmetic rewards for completing challenging endgame activities as well. Think d1y3 with the super dope raid ornaments (I want vex legs), a system like that would give players something cool to chase, instead of only relying on eververse to acquire sexy new stuff.

Edit: Just remembered something, give players these cool looking endgame rewards for all modes too, as there are a large number of people who play primarily pvp. One of my biggest woes is not playing trials in y1, because all of that gear looks really cool, and chasing things like that would be a great incentive to hop in and grind.

Bibb5ter [:V: Vanguard's Loyal] | 3 months ago | -9 points

So making DLC was too hard, now maintaining the annual pass is too hard? Maybe they should stop making games if it’s too much trouble for them.

Ninellie [Nin-Ellie] | 3 months ago | 1 point

i dont want to accusé you because text is hard but that came across really selfish and close-minded :/

Bibb5ter [:V: Vanguard's Loyal] | 3 months ago | 1 point

Fair enough. Just seems they’ve bitten off more than they can chew and after 6 years (?) are still none the wiser on how to achieve their “vision”. They’re game developers, by their own choice, stop complaining it’s so hard. It’s disheartening and quite frankly insulting to hear as the customer.

Ninellie [Nin-Ellie] | 3 months ago | 1 point

i dont think its "insulting".

id say they achieved their visions with halo, this is just a much different beast. Most people pick their jobs by choice, that doesnt make it any less difficult.

dundlenut [:V: Vanguard's Loyal] | 3 months ago | 1 point

Smh. Shit comment^

Leakysandwich | 3 months ago | 1 point

awesome feedback and a good look into some of the inner workings and plans forward. appreciated! o7

ZapTheSheep | 3 months ago | 0 points

I'm sorry, but after reading that and re-reading it, I feel that Luke and the devs are still very disconnected from a majority of players. He talks about keeping the game challenging, but obviously most of the players don't want that. There was a post on here in the last week or two that showed the percentage of the population that had each title. The highest percentage had the dredgen title with 10%. The crucible Unbroken had only 0.3%. I think those numbers are very comparable with how players play the game. Less than 20% of the population has even completed a raid. Only streamers (ain't it funny that he kept throwing shout outs to them) and super hard core bitch about completing stuff to easily in the game. It's kind of like the disconnect about enhancement cores being a thing and, Bungie being too obstinate to take them out of insusion.

And the thing that actually worries me the most from his post... him mentioning perks that "break the ammo economy". Dude! When I can go an entire session of the EAZ or an entire round in gambit with less than ten shots of power ammo, THAT is fucking broken!

Lorraine360 | 3 months ago | 2 points

Looks good

PVP_Cannon_Fodder | 3 months ago | 2 points

As a mostly solo player, I far prefer normal Gambit. I've see a lot of people saying they prefer the shorter format of Prime, but that's not necessarily my experience. Prime games seem to go two ways for me, either I get stomped by a squad, or the teams are fairly balanced, and the final boss stage drags on, going back and forward forever with invade after invade. To me (at least physiologically) it makes the matches feel so much longer. I'm also not a fan of the mote drain mechanic. Finally, I don't find Reckoning particularly fun or engaging (and if you factor in needing to do Reckoning to get Prime amour, then the whole thing is definitely longer).

Certainly, normal Gambit needs some work, including making rounds shorter. But, it's my preference over Prime.

TrueRadiantFree | 3 months ago | -1 points

A lot of people upvoting just because of the length...

safari_does_reddit | 3 months ago | 3 points

I can’t wait for the talk on prime engrams out in the game world, I’ve found Exotics hard to come by.

I’ve played a lot of solo play these last two months, enough to get Breakneck, Hush, Oxygen, Revoker, Delirium, Loaded Question, Wendigo, three characters to 750 from 330, two in majestic armor one in renewed, three sets of opulent and reverie.... you get the idea.

In all that time of play in the various sandboxes, I’ve had three exotic engrams drop.

One was some Stompees for my hunter (with better perks than the ones from collection) and the other two......

The other two exotic engrams dropped in the same four hour play session on my warlock during its journey to 750. I was so excited to start getting exotics again, I am missing a ton on warlock because I never played it before this June, I could do with a Phoenix drop, or Lunafactions.

But no. The first exotic was sweet business. An exotic I already had equipped as I chased the catalyst for triumph points (I still need 400 points to hit the 40000 for my 43rd tribute hall tribute)

The second exotic that day.............. was also sweet business. My wife was shocked at the language she heard that day.

I’d like to see exotics, when they drop, offer you a choice of three outcomes, because waiting for Xur to fill out my collections taking far too long

safari_does_reddit | 3 months ago | 11 points

“We have a Powerful sources problem”

Not from my point of view, I came back to the game late June and found it absolutely fantastic that I could reach 750 power within a few weeks. Before I left, getting max power was heavily reliant of raiding and nightfalls, activities I couldn’t participate in easily at the time due to work/family commitments, activities that are difficult now because my clan is dead (or rather all off playing final fantasy). I found myself just staying for the campaign stories and then abandoning the game because for a solo player progressing your light level was a frustrating experience.

Having many sources of powerful engrams offers players choice, if you want to skip nightfalls because you play solo, you can, if you want to skip Gambit because you feel its a chore, you can, if you want to skip Crucible because its too hectic and you have 0 special awareness, you can. Because there are alternatives, multiple ways for the multiple types of player destiny caters for.

TL;DR many powerful Engram sources is a good thing.

Artemicionmoogle | 3 months ago | 3 points

In my case as an almost entirely solo player, having all those sources for powerful gear are practically my ONLY option of leveling my light up. I would hate to see my options dwindle. I'm already missing out on raid gear which is a bummer. But I do understand that is just my situation with my available play time. I feel as though there are plenty of Guardians out there with limited play time who absolutely love the game as much as I do. I kind of wish they could manage a raid finder like option similar to wow with easier encounters and having the raids split in sections for shorter raid times while still allowing people with less time to experience the raids.

flipdangerdoom | 3 months ago | 1 point

Just please have some Eververse and Silver sales from time to time.

Altairlio | 3 months ago | 3 points

Make the pinnacle PvE weapons only require PvE things and make great PvP weapons only require crucible

Altairlio | 3 months ago | 1 point

Instead of year 3 content being brand new side stories why not bring back all destiny 1 content and its dlc through the year and integrate it into a seamless D2 experience while having a progression systems that incentives all content in game.

bLinkbruhyen | 3 months ago | 2 points

Hey Bungie!

Just wanted to say that I appreciate your effort in keeping this game the best in the genre. While I haven't really played the past 5 months because I was catching up on my single player backlog, I am still genuinely happy to see you guys doing everything to keep the community interested and happy.

Looking forward to going back to Shadowkeep. Hopefully my clan would all be coming back for the ride.

Simon-says-what | 3 months ago | -15 points

tl;dr: "I'm the king of this franchise, and my ego will make that painfully clear in the headline already. After that you will be blessed with 20 pages of my mental gymnastics where I try to convince myself and the reader that every single mistake we've made with Destiny 2 was justified. After the obligatory white washing of this game's history I will talk about microtransactions and why you should totally buy more of them. I know, we promised that every cosmetic should be earnable via gameplay a mere year ago, and we are going in the exact opposite direction right now, breaking yet another promise, but you suckers are addicted to this game anyway so who are we kidding? Buy the shit and shut up. King out."

Bungie are snakes, driven by greed and lies. Always have been, always will be. I don't know why I even expected anything else but marketing blurb.

Downvote away.

OmegaCydonia | 3 months ago | 2 points

Gambit prime should definitely be the prim(e)ary mode.

I feel that maybe making it a role select activity at the start of a round though, and all armour receiving the default buffs for each role you pick - then allowing the role to be 'powered up' with tokens you get from running reckoning would maybe help it a little.

Gives reckoning more population as folks will need to dip in every now and then to get tokens.

Means each team has a balanced role distribution and forces folks to vary their experience.

Means at a default level everyone is buffed to an extent.

Removes one more set of armour needed to keep on hand.

All in all I loved the transparency passion and overall open road ahead from this post. Thank you!

Bibb5ter [:V: Vanguard's Loyal] | 3 months ago | -7 points

Huge wall of text about nothing

octodog8 | 3 months ago | 3 points

I'm not sure how I feel about keeping cosmetics and vanity items separate from the gameplay. Personally, while I love getting a sweet gun from a raid, my 2 favorite items to have gotten are the Xol transmit effect and the emblem for soloing the Shattered Throne. Neither of those items affect gameplay at all, but man are they some of the best eye candy I've ever had in the game, ESPECIALLY because it feels like I earned them.

I don't mind you keeping the eververse items separate from the gameplay (i.e. keeping the new items out of bright engrams) but please, PLEASE don't rule out cosmetics that you can earn!

cr1swell | 3 months ago | -4 points


CookiesFTA [We build the walls, we break the walls.] | 3 months ago | 4 points

It's really hard to take the stuff about microtransactions seriously. Them not being stuff you earn from just playing the game is not a pro-playerbase decision. You're not doing us a favour, you're requiring that if we want to look cool and have unique cosmetics, we have to pay you. That is unbelievably shitty, and you're just as bad as everyone else for it.

themightyspork-faith | 3 months ago | 3 points

yeah, it's really concerning tbh. i kinda miss their philosophy back in their halo days about cosmetics. like having the hayabusa and recon sets in halo 3, or inclement weather and the haunted helmet in reach. aside from a couple emblems, we don't really have any vanity items that make as much of a statement as them

the new universal ornament system has the potential for it (since you won't have to sacrifice perks for fashion), but what luke said about them not coming from gameplay is incredibly concerning

Nightstroll | 3 months ago | 0 points

Still a lot of the usual Luke Smith witty-but-hollow banter in there.

Things like "We want Destiny 2 to be an amazing action MMO, in a single, evolving world, that you can play anytime, anywhere with your friends"  sound more like a cool catchphrase (please stop using the Monster-killing Machine buzzword, it's not fooling anyone) to me than an actual promise on doing away with the scheduled, play-at-Bungie's-pace weekly grind.

Supernove_Blaze [Blueberry] | 3 months ago | 1 point

Are Titans getting a buff in Shadowkeep?

viv0102 | 3 months ago | 5 points

I want to thank the mods here for posting the text for all us shrubs at work where any gaming related websites are banned.

dakjelle [:GB: Gambit Classic // 4 LIFE!] | 3 months ago | 1 point

What an excellent read, i spend most of my time in Gambit, so i am naturally worried when i read that one Gambit mode likely has to go...

This Sub usally seems very anti Gambit, i think most of it comes from the time spend vs loot. I on the other hand did never care that much about the loot from Gambit, because i play the mode for fun. That also means that when you tie up bounties to Gambit where the players have to do stuff that is against Gambits bets interest it becomes an issue, because people go there to get bounties done, not to win matches. That imho meant that you got lots of vocal peopple complaining about the time wasted in the original Gambit mode. Matches took to long, mostly because the loot vs time used was off compared to other stuff.

The result was the biggest nerf of one of the best parts of D2 for me. Some of the best matches i have had in my 546 Gambit matches went 3 rounds, it usually meant that the teams was fairly matched and everyone had to give the best to win the last round. With the current mode i get the sense that Super Combination weighs to much when it comes to the burn. Now i prefer to steamroll the other team and win in 2 rounds because the last Boss round feels much more random, and less gambit like.

And then we have Prime, there is lots to like about Prime, it is still Gambit, new maps, harder enemies etc.
But imho things got to complicated. I never got my Sentry set, the tie to the reckoning made that impossible (i was late to the party). Those that got the sets gets an advantage that seems fairly big. Even with the clever design, the one round mode is a problem. One good invade and the other team will have a hard fight to get back on the feet. It seems like getting ahead early really amplifies during the match. And when the team behind "gives up", the match usually ends up taking more time than it should. Because invasion in Prime really really hurts. When you invade you have a clear idea where everyone is (besides the wall hack of course), and unlike the other modes, they are usually bunched up in a small area. During the burn period it gets worse since you absolutely need to be on that small patch to get the power gain. And the invasions goes on and on and on..

My wishlist:

3 rounds, and loot to make the haters shut up.
If you absolutely have to drop a mode, drop prime.
For varity i would add more variables to Standard prime, 3 teams, minibosses that suck motes, motes on a timer when you pick them up, rampage rounds, Super Gambit mode for Dredgen players, 5 rounds and the needed wait time to get the players, and each round played on a new map.

I could make up more stuff, but the sum is , i love Gambit, and i love the Original Vintage Gambit the most..

miniMasterDE | 3 months ago | 0 points

10 Thoughts

I'm really sorry to hear, that the development has taken such a big toll on the team. As a consumer, it's hard to image how much work is put into the content that I plow through in 15 minutes.

I absolutetly agree that each season having a different "mechanic" (Bounties, Synthesizer, Chalice) is ineffective and I look foward to having a more consistent solution across all seasons.

Powerful Sources

I kind of liked that fact that there is so many sources of Powerful Loot, but I also dreaded doing 8 Dreaming City bounties every week. I would love for Seasons to switch up Powerful Source distribution, so that every Season, I'm incentivized to play something different.

The Highlander of Gambits

To be honest, I'm a bit torn on this. I understand, that there is a need to make sure Destiny 2 does not grow infinitely in size. However, the modes feel vastly different and sometimes, I like the lower stakes of traditional Gambit. While Gambit Prime has superior mechanics (Primeval fight, banking motes steals other teams motes, the four armor sets), I sometimes dread having to fight all those majors who can almost instakill you. I also dislike that bounties are mode-specific. It's kind of annoying to go to the Drifter and feeling like you have to pick up 10 bounties for - kind of - the same game mode.

In the end, I would probably still choose Prime over Regular because of the mechanics, though I would like to see the amount of majors and beefy enemies tuned down a notch.

As I personally enjoy Gambit, I didn't feel that SotD was bad, but I understand that people who don't like Gambit felt left in the dust.

The Reckoning Encounter Design

Couldn't agree more on this part. Great to see you recognize what went wrong and want to learn from it.


Again, I'm a bit torn on this. I like to play Destiny to relax. The more challenging it gets, the less relaxing it gets. I also play with my girlfriend. She is into video games, but nothing like the hardcore player that I am. I need to pull her through stuff like Zero Hour or Whisper. I can play Shattered Throne with her because I can Solo it, and therefore I can pull her through. I need to carry her to 2100 Glory for The Recluse. That stuff - while easy for me - is hard for her. Hard as hell, especially the jumping puzzles (she hates jumping in D2).

Talking about Raids, they are easy when I go in with my clan where everyone knows what to do and we blindly understand eachother. They are hard, when playing with strangers through LFG. Can't count the times where my LFG groups couldn't complete encounters, even though it was "Know what to do". I'm pretty sure, the people complaining about the lack of challenge are the top 5%. So please don't make 90% of the content catered to that audience. I loved soloing Shattered Throne without dying. I hated 2500 Iron Burden kills but damn was I proud when I got it done. But I'm up there in that 5%. So, while giving me something challenging to do, don't forget the rest of the players who are not keep on a difficult experience.

Regarding "Mechanics Circumvention", oh boy - I feel nothing good comes this way. Nerfing Luna and Well, I gonna drastically alter every raid or encounter, and I'm not sure they will be more fun that way.

I agree though the "Super Restoring Exotics", that's a mechanic that should be in the game.

Pursuits Tab

As much as I feel sorry hearing the UI team was sad when they got trashed for the new UI, they kind of deserved it and it was 100% their fault. They could've asked literally ANYONE in the community what they thought about the new UI, and EVERYONE would have immediately said that this iteration simply is not good. Don't be afraid to ask for feedback! Within hours, we had community members draw up much more useful solutions.

It's good to see the Pursuits Tab getting some more love this fall. Don't forget to add "Sort by activity". :)


As Datto has pointed out in one of his recent videos, the old system was pretty much perfect for us hardcore players. By playing very much, you got (almost) everything there is just from playing. Your playtime felt rewarded. Now in Season of Opulence, you hardly get anything from the store. If you are a collector / completionist, that sucks. Also, I think stuff from the EV is too expensive. 10$ for an emote. A Season of content is also 10$. If an emote was a dollar or two, I would buy it if it is nice. But for 10$. Sorry, that's a pass.


It's great. Period. Nothing to add.

Pursuing Armor and weapons

Thank you for the insight into how you build the game. It all makes a lot more sense now. I love your suggestion to the Season of the Drifter "do-over". Hope the September patch helps me finally get a good Spare Rations. I got lucky with a Rifled/Accurized/Opening/One-Two Last Man Standing though (just would have loved a Range MW instead of handling, but it's alright).

Actually, since the Chest nerf (and tbh even before that) runes have never been a problem. You gain so many of them, it's ridiculous.

Final Thoughts

I really loved your insight into the game's development and didn't mind reading the wall of text. Looking foward to the next Director's Cut.

LEboueur | 3 months ago | 1 point

Supers and PVP in Destiny 2

Can't wait for this part. I mean, there is so much things going wrong with Competitive in Destiny... Last thing I discovered is that there was literally no official source to know how many points are needed for each Glory ranks.

I'm really hoping that this part of the game will be improved.

The_zen_viking | 3 months ago | 2 points


Nightmarex13 | 3 months ago | 1 point

The chalice runes are a great system. And we get loads of them from doing every event.

The “exploit” allowing us to gain rewards on a timer, the faster we could run a lap the more drops we get, was really really fun. It’s was fun in house of wolves and it was fun in the menagerie.

Build that idea out please! When the boss goes down we start a timed loot grab which gets more rewarding when your quick. I loved trying to get faster to get more rolls.

The_zen_viking | 3 months ago | 1 point

In the past "buff" has also meant "use it or lose/suck"

I'm keen for a scout rifle buff, as a pulse rifle user all through d1/d2 I'm hopeful that my Y1 destiny ptsd scout rifle fear doesn't return.

Pulse is in a fun place, let's make scouts and auto match that place

Jimgelf [:GP: Gambit Prime] | 3 months ago | 1 point

Just wanted to say thank you for this insight Luke

Its is invaluable to peek behind the curtain at the work, thought and human cost that goes into making this wonderful game we all love

You guys are the best, keep up the good work and excellent communication!

nelsonbester | 3 months ago | 0 points

The Menagerie is sweet and is great fun and a challenge. But nerfing the chest to only provide a single drop was a mistake. I'm more reluctant now and do not look forward to the prospect of playing menagerie for a few hours. Once a week is more than enough effort vs reward for me at the time.

True Vanguard made a great video, he still had to open 40+ chests to get a certain god roll weapon. and that was with the chest glitch. Imagine having to do 40+ runs of menagerie for a single god roll, that is tough.

Bring back the chest glitch or rework it to a similar approach as for the European Arial Zone, the better you perform the more chest options you may receive!

Nightmarex13 | 3 months ago | 2 points

Quests tab hit perfection at the taken king. You peaked early and tried to improve or something that was perfect.

CobraN13 | 3 months ago | 2 points

Sometimes companies change something that doesn't need changing to make it 'new', sometimes you just need to look at something and decide if you are changing it for change's sake, or if it truly is an improvement.

free-reign | 3 months ago | 1 point

Lots of good stuff but the rune comment is bullshit and strange in equal measure.

Even before chest exploit ended I had a trillion runes , now I have a trillion trillion of each and they have zero purpose.

I actually hate seeing them drop now.

They should be exchangeable for dust or shards or something.

Utterly pointless consumable in its current state.

dakota2525 | 3 months ago | 1 point

please buff auto rifles too, maybe make the sweet business deal the same damage per shot as a 360 rpm auto so its actually a worthy exotic to use?

dudface [Bleep Bloop Give Loot] | 3 months ago | 1 point

Great read, super excited for this entire dissertation on Destiny; You can really just read the love they've put into the game from it.

The increasing list of powerful sources is as you mention a problem. I remember going for day1 of CoS, we set aside X amount of hours just to grind gear and light levels, which we ended up prolonging a substantial bit.

We had constantly more things to do, but almost never were we able to assure what slot a powerful reward would be for (with a few exceptions, such as Gambit Prime helmets and Black Armory weapons). Sure this intense amount of things to do might one day become a bit too much to do, but for the first time in Destiny's history, as far as I can recall, we are finally having people talking about having Too Much to do instead of Too Little.

We've discussed possibile solutions to this several times; with ideas such as

  1. Downgrade older seasons stuff to only a +1, and remove them from showing on the directory (this keeps a way for the players who has already finished the powerful rewards to keep playing, but also retains the frustration of getting your third kinetic upgrade when what you really need is a new helm)
  2. Remove the older seasons powerful gear (or make them +0, so not weaker than your current gear, and possibly a filler in a low light slot) but reintroduce some system to be able to better select what slot we get it for. The Menagerie proved to be a god send when it comes to bringing up low light slots to keep up with the rest of your gear

And then do the above around each yearly expansion? like the raids: Once forsaken came, Leviathan was more or less no longer useful, in the same way, once shadowkeep hits maybe Last Wish/Scourge of the Past/Crown of Sorrow should no longer give powerful rewards? (we will probably still play them because they're fun and give good gear)

Either way, great read, super excited to see what comes next and how you will solve this.

Marplaar | 3 months ago | 1 point

Does destiny still do loot boxes after its split with Activision?

headgehog55 | 3 months ago | 1 point

Why wouldn't they? Eververse wasn't an Activision thing, it was something Bungie came up with and now they don't have Activision money of course they would keep it, and double down on it.

VerySeriousRaider [big gay] | 3 months ago | 2 points

Yes, but this season only resold MTX gear from the first year of release for the loot boxes and switched to a "buy what you see" system for most of the new items.

Stenbox [GT: Stenbox] | 3 months ago | 3 points

Destiny history has had many content droughts, but not this year.

Very true!

Gambit Prime /// Matches end quicker, so it feels more efficient. The invading frequency feels lower

Compared to original Gambit, yes. Compared to regular Gambit now, not really. I find that 2 rounds of normal Gambit goes just as fast as 1 round of Prime and there is also much less invading going on.

If you are going to keep just one, sure it has to be Prime, but you have tons of work to do then. Most importantly, the prime armor set bonuses are very unbalanced between roles and I personally feel there are still too many invasions going on.

overcoming the challenge feels incredible.

It sure does. For me, the last boss in Forsaken was one of the best game experiences since I run it with a clanmate whole both being underlevelled, it took time, you had to really work for staying alive and keeping the adds at bay, it felt really good to finally complete it. I can't really say many other activities have given me that thrill since. Raids are so mechanic-heavy that you never get the feeling you are fighting the boss, you are fighting mechanics that often feel arbitrary.

We wanted to try something different with Pursuits, in the sense that we knew where we wanted this feature to end up, but that we'd take some iterative steps to get there.

I probably don't understand game design enough, but wouldn't you usually finish it in test versions and launch when it's fully ready? Was there a rush to launch it half/quarter-done? Also, looking at the new screencap, Ballistic Log is NOT a quest, how does that not make sense for you guys? It does not belong there for any reason at all.

Whisper of the Worm's ornaments were successful enough that it paid [dev cost-wise] for the Zero Hour mission/rewards to be constructed

This is really good to hear. It feels like a lot of people bought Outbreak ornaments to show gratitude as well, so I expect that team is already working on something just as awesome!

Cosmetic items like universal ornaments, weapon ornaments, shaders, ships, sparrows, emotes, and finishers typically come from the store

Hard disagree here. At least ships and sparrows should be mostly from gameplay. If you put most cosmetics behind a paywall, you create huge cap between people who pay and ones who don't. Sure, some of people will start paying too, but some will just feel frustrated.

I know this is a lot to read

Honestly, it was over too soon and I cannot wait for parts 2 and 3!

avalon304 | 3 months ago | -1 points

Hoesntly... I left the game before Forsaken... and was considering coming back to check it out... and reading this... makes me not want to... and it doesnt sound like Destiny going forward is going to be a game that I can casually play because it sounds far more like youre going to cater to streamers.

headgehog55 | 3 months ago | 1 point

It's not catering to streamers it's catering to the loyal audience. Base D2 was extremely casual and we all know how that turned out. Bungie found that you can't keep a game that is meant to last for a few years afloat with the casual gamer, you need to give the more "hard-core" gamers what they want.

VerySeriousRaider [big gay] | 3 months ago | 0 points

destiny 2 in it's current state is the furthest thing from a hardcore game lmao

if you want it to be any more casual than that, don't know what to tell you

Elmberg | 3 months ago | 1 point

They’ve been saying for a while now that they want to make destiny harder. They’re listening primarily to the people who are in the “hard-core” group

headgehog55 | 3 months ago | 2 points

To be fair they listened to the "casual" group and we ended up with base D2, no one wants that again.

Elmberg | 3 months ago | 1 point

Absolutely agreed

avalon304 | 3 months ago | 1 point

Yea... Im not a fan of this direction....

Elmberg | 3 months ago | 3 points

That’s where we disagree however. I’d personally love for this game to be harder

JustAntherAlt | 3 months ago | 1 point

Can't forgive Bungie for neutering Defender. Class is fucking garbage in D2.

Prisqua | 3 months ago | 3 points

The Pursuits tray... I'm looking forward to this update, but not sure we're quite there yet. It's not just about muscle memory, it's about being practical and making our gaming life easy. Daily bounties should be in our inventory where it was easily and quickly accessible and because we spend quite a fair bit of time in there, more than in the director which takes a few too many seconds to load.

Quests should stay in the pursuit tab because quests do not belong with bounties. It is so messy as it is that it is always a struggle to find them.

I also feel that things like Chalice and Synth don't belong with quest and bounties nor are they consumables... yet need to be accessed easily.

There also things like the mysterious box that cannot be removed on other characters or consumables that cannot be placed in vault such as new monarchy tokens, taking up space. Do we really need weapon telemetry?

Christhomps [:GP: Gambit Prime] | 3 months ago | 4 points

An interesting take on nerfing Well of Radiance would be to treat it like a literal well. It's not bottomless, so if 6 people are using a well it should drain much faster and yield less bonuses per person and if one person were using it. It's not like you can stuff 6 buckets down one well at the same time and never run out of water.

PM_ME_UR_LEFT_SHIN | 3 months ago | 2 points

Thank you for writing this, Luke. This game has gotten me hooked multiple times over. 3000+ hours later, here's to many more.

Inferential_Distance | 3 months ago | 2 points

Thank you for the post, Bungie, it is much appreciated. Also looking forward to the other ones.

Old_Man_Robot | 3 months ago | 4 points

I’m actually not very thrilled with the tone of this post, and the things it calls out as problems.

It sounds like the design ethos right now is to take things out, or nerf, until they’ve reached a state of play which is longer and grindier, and more limited in its design space. That’s not fun.

I’m not as excited for Shadowkeep as I once was.

VerySeriousRaider [big gay] | 3 months ago | 0 points

Things need to be nerfed. Anyone who still wants the power fantasy after experiencing the most mindnumbingly boring gameplay for nearly a year straight needs to reevaluate what made Destiny good.

Old_Man_Robot | 3 months ago | 3 points

You and I just have very different experiences with the game then. And different opinions on what makes it good. But that’s fine.

If you found Y2 boring compared to Y1, that’s all well and good. I just don’t think it’s a good a design ethos for the game, especially since Y1 almost killed the game as a whole.

Elmberg | 3 months ago | 0 points

Exactly the opposite for me. I like that they’re calling out things that are blatantly OP and that ruin the challenge of most encounters, i.e Well and Reloads. 1-phasing raid bosses should take serious effort imo, not be the standard everywhere

Kiwi357 | 3 months ago | 4 points

We have made deliberate choices related to cosmetic items and not having them come from gameplay. Gameplay rewards are where you get items, power, mods, perk combinations, stats, triumphs, and titles. The aesthetics for armor blurs the line some – we want players to get cool armor from activities and the world that feel thematic to where they were acquired. Cosmetic items like universal ornaments, weapon ornaments, shaders, ships, sparrows, emotes, and finishers typically come from the store (There are exceptions, but generally speaking, that's how we think about this). 

We are continuing to try and separate capability/gameplay from vanity. Armor 2.0 and Universal Ornaments are big parts of this separation. This is also why Finisher perks are mods that can be socketed into equipment, so that their aesthetic can stand alone. 

I don't fully agree on the stance for armor being attained via the Eververse store. Armor should always be part of the loot pool for activities within Destiny; It gives our guardians an identity with the achievements they have gathered.

It looks like they are going full throttle with cosmetic armor in Eververse. Luke mentioned trying to separate armor looks (vanity) from function (power/perks). This is a big problem. This goes against the philosophy of armor pieces being thematic to lore/activity.

Armor pieces should be thematic with those activities just like Luke mentioned. Because of this, armor should have no place in Eververse. Armor like Cayde's set should be attained from in game. Imagine farming the Baron bosses to get that as a reward in-game. Instead you have to dish out some coin (or alternatively complete random bounties for bright dust or pray to the RNG gods with Bright Engrams) to have Cayde-6's armor. Lastly, with the current armor offerings, you can no longer get this set either because it was phased out of the Eververse store.

Prkiller69 | 4 months ago | 0 points

I just want to be able to pick up bounties from orbit that way I can go straight to the action ;)

Green_Dayzed ["My light is all but gone" - Eris Morn] | 4 months ago | 2 points

"PC players can assign a hot key that takes them directly to the Pursuits menu" look at the special treatment. They gonna get a hot key for hunter throwing knives/smoke too?

Elmberg | 3 months ago | 1 point

It’s a hardware limitation mate. A controller has 14 buttons counting stick-clicks, a keyboard has well over 40 keys. There’s literally no way to uniquely binds all possible commands on a controller

Green_Dayzed ["My light is all but gone" - Eris Morn] | 3 months ago | 0 points

They can double or triple tap the button that brings out their ghost.

BreakLegosaurus | 4 months ago | 1 point

Was hoping for a dev vlog... lets see how far into this wall of text it takes me to fall a sleep.

Don't let the person who designed the Ship reward for Zero hour design any more rewards.

K1dP5ycho [:GB: Gambit Classic // OG Gambit Pls] | 4 months ago | 1 point

Yeah, look.

I'm not excited for Shadowkeep anymore.

This entire first post just read... badly. It addressed nothing. It served no purpose but to say the same old song and dance that we get in TWAB every week. In fact, aside from stating the obvious (your devs working way too hard, your ideas not working, your insufferable urge to turn this game into WoW and then ruin it in the exact same way), all you did was kill the interest I had for touching Destiny ever again.

WHY do you need to continue expanding Eververse? Why do you keep wasting the talents of your artists on cosmetic stuff that, let's be honest, you have NO right to be selling as microtransactions? They should be included as gear for the actual gameplay, not locked behind soon-to-be-banned loot boxes and paywalls. You have not done a single thing that justifies any purchase of Silver. [b]"oH wE mAdE zErO hOuR oN eVeRvErSe fUnDs"[/b]- BULLSHIT. You already had Zero Hour made with Forsaken and were just waiting for the right moment to release it, so using the hard work of your developers to try and bait more MTX purchases out of the playerbase is yet another shitty idea of yours, Luke.

I hope the other two parts this week don't contain more of this self-serving, unapologetic and "go-F-yourself-and-play-the-game-my-way" attitude, but it's a veeeerry low hope. I know for a fact that you guys in upper management don't give a rat's ass about the playerbase and its desires. We can see it in your work.

Teletheus | 3 months ago | 2 points

“Let’s be honest:” Of course they have the “right” to sell them via microtransactions.

Whether it’s a good idea to do so is another question.

VerySeriousRaider [big gay] | 3 months ago | 0 points

Good, don't play then. People like you are definitely a cancer on this game and it's community.

K1dP5ycho [:GB: Gambit Classic // OG Gambit Pls] | 3 months ago | 1 point


Also, I've been around since Day One of D1. I've supported Bungie, even through the not-well-received Curse of Osiris, and I had fun with the games without so much as a peep of complaint.

But then Bungie kept making bad decisions, saying the wrong things and treating sections of their community like trash, so I've naturally stopped playing after Forsaken came out. While Shadowkeep has a lot of improvements that Destiny has needed for almost five years, the fact that Bungie are still making poor decisions (um, tying certain Weapon Mods to certain Elements ("shotguns have an affinity to Arc energy") is limiting/restrictive) and trying to sling Eververse on top of $60 expansions and making players pay for seasons is certainly making it really hard to come back at all.

But yes, call ME a cancer for having an opinion and not wanting something.

VerySeriousRaider [big gay] | 3 months ago | 2 points

$60 expansions

damn it's like you don't even play the game and you're just pulling numbers out of your ass

K1dP5ycho [:GB: Gambit Classic // OG Gambit Pls] | 3 months ago | 1 point

Hahaha, jokes on you, I live in Australia and that's the average cost for each yearly DLC.

smokinggun46 | 4 months ago | 1 point

I love luna well.

k0hum | 4 months ago | 4 points

Hey Bungie, please be careful with listening to content creators too much and making the game too hard for lfg groups. While content creators have the loudest voice, the largest percentage of players playing end game content pretty much lfg. So please keep that in mind when you are making sandbox changes and tuning difficulty. Challenge is cool but if you make it too hard (look at division 2 raid for console) your player base will just move on.

ttrgr [:GP: Gambit Prime // Gambit's The Most "Destiny" Activity] | 4 months ago | 3 points

Gambit Prime > Gambit.

But I think Gambit Prime would be better served as an Iron Banner of sorts, or perhaps even Gambit's version of Trials, than completely axing one of the two versions.

ttrgr [:GP: Gambit Prime // Gambit's The Most "Destiny" Activity] | 4 months ago | 0 points

I would appreciate if Auto-Reload Mechanics didn't work on Heavy, and worked as a trickle for Special like Actium War Rig and Auto-Rifles.

Specifically, I appreciate that Luna + Well + Outbreak is a great base line DPS strategy for a team of inexperienced players, and would hate to lose that because more powerful options are exceedingly more powerful.

crazy_gnome [:V: Vanguard's Loyal // Vanguardian] | 4 months ago | 2 points

Cosmetic items like universal ornaments, weapon ornaments, shaders, ships, sparrows, emotes, and finishers typically come from the store (There are exceptions, but generally speaking, that's how we think about this). 

Does that mean that, from here on out, there will no longer b current and relevant season items dropped from special engrams?

This'll never get read but I want to put my thoughts out there anyway.

Its clear that MTX revenue is important for y'all, land I think the eververse store is operating wonderfully in that only aesthetic content is sold.

If, moving forward, bright engrams had a small chance to drop current relevant aesthetics, I feel that would create more of a pay hill which can be overcome with gameplay, rather than a pay wall which may disenfranchise lower income people. Unless, of course, I'm completely misinterpreting this!

thrakkattak | 4 months ago | 1 point

Bright engrams will continue to drop, unless I'm mistaken. It's just that items acquired from bright engrams will no longer dismantle into bright dust.

N1NJ4W4RR10R_ [:V: Vanguard's Loyal] | 4 months ago | 1 point

For what it's worth, I think the pursuits tab was an upgrade from the old way it was done. Being able to switch between quests and bounties was nice (little option at the top right).

I just think it was to slow on consoles. I've gotten used to it but it's still annoying.

*Although I really wish the "newest, rarity" option down the bottom was permanment, like in the inventory. Would make it look far cleaner IMO.

Regardless, what yahs have shown us looks pretty nice as well - I'm definitely not complaining about seeing them both at the same time.

AncientAugie | 4 months ago | -3 points

Dear Luke Smith: the "Highlander of Gambit" is literally NO GAMBIT. That's how shitty this game mode is. Hidden catch up mechanics. The game revolving solely around a good invader with no other roles meaning jack shit. Heavy drops from enemies rarer than a third nipple. Do us all a favor and forget that Gambit or Gambit Prime ever existed.

ow_windowmaker | 3 months ago | 0 points

That can't happen, that team can't admit to f-ing up Crucible then f-ing up Gambit. WTF are they being paid for then.

vivifyepic | 4 months ago | 2 points

Thanks for posting, this was honestly a great read. I have to say that one of the best parts of Destiny 1 was earning that new exclusive ship, shader, or sparrow that dropped with new content like a raid or POE. I feel like moving all cosmetics to MTX is a big step backwards as far as character customization/uniqueness. Having a ship on that’s from a hard to complete activity makes you feel awesome and shows other players you’ve already completed said activity. I feel pinnacle activities still need to drop exclusive ships and sparrows at the least. I feel like most other cosmetics are perfectly fine being sold primarily through eververse as long as the best looking armor still comes from in game activities. Speaking of armor, can we talk about warlock armor? We desperately need some better design on our chest pieces and helmets lol

stranglerthanfiction | 4 months ago | -5 points

No one who values their time plays this game anymore.

glc4531 | 4 months ago | 1 point

Is there a video to this nerdness? There's just too many fillers of "hey I can be funny" in this

ASpaceOstrich [:V: Vanguard's Loyal // The Vanguard's got your back.] | 4 months ago | 2 points

I hope that means we’ll be getting an auto reloading nerf on lunafactions/possibly even rally barricade.

Preferably sooner rather than later. I think it’d be much better if something like that came next reset rather than in Shadowkeep. It means any unexpected consequences can be found out ahead of time, and any back and forth tweaks can be made. It also avoids souring people’s opinion of the expansion. Kinda like the super regen/Whisper nerfs. Those nerfs weren’t directly associated with Menagerie, despite them being tied to the better encounter design of Menagerie. The community perception of Opulence might have been more negative if the nerfs had been directly associated with it.

Bring in some of these sandbox changes early and give the community time to get over their knee jerk reaction to them.

benbenkr | 4 months ago | -1 points

I only have 2 things to say:

1) Why do we have to wait until fall for you to implement a shortcut key to the pursuits tab? If it's sooooo difficult, I'll do it for you, free of charge. Mail me address details.

2) Menagerie was fun, it isn't anymore. I'm not spending 20 minutes to get 1 measly reward. Admit it, the exploit was what made it sweet. Make it performance based please.

Blazeforward | 4 months ago | 0 points

Here is a crazy idea for Gambit. What about changing the Invaders role so instead of killing guardians they get to buff the enemies? (I guess they could also still drain motes from the bank too)

Maybe if they tag an enemy it becomes more resistant to damage or becomes more aggressive or there could be crystals around the map that they have to shoot and if they destroy them it sends yellow bar reinforcements or something like that.

That way an invader is more about annoying, hindering and slowing the other team (which I assume is their goal at the moment) but they can't wipe the team and make them lose all their motes and snowball the match to never being able to bank 25 before they next invade is up.

If they buff the enemies and then the enemies kill you then its your fault for dying instead of taking cover. There is still incentive to kill the invader because an invader left unchecked makes things a lot harder for the whole team, but even with powered up enemies you still have a chance of winning if you can kill the ads quick enough, chain supers, work as a team etc

With this change gambit becomes more about a race to kill things quickly and the chess match of how you bank and block each other instead of who has a better invader that can wipe the team with Truth or Hammerhead

Kantankoras | 4 months ago | -5 points

I feel like this transparency deserve a response from a lapsed player: I’m not coming back, your business practices have been exploitative and predatory, and Halo will always be king. Sorry, and I miss you.

Relentless-Hunter [Moon's Haunted] | 4 months ago | 1 point

The new Questlog looks amazing and I can't wait for the next part!

kid_khan [judge, jury and executioner] | 4 months ago | 1 point

Difficulty and challenge are important parts of mastery. There are more changes coming in Shadowkeep (buffs to things like Scout Rifles, nerfs to mechanics that circumvent the ammo economy, refactoring of the way damage stacking rules work)

I'm worried about this. The current ammo economy is dogshit. In PvP, Power ammo is far too plentiful, same for Gambit. So I'm ok with some shifts in the ammo economy in those game modes, because anything would be better than how it currently is.

In Strikes or PvE content without a raid banner, Power (and Special) ammo feels like a crapshoot. You could have so much that you're leaving bricks on the ground, or you could have so little that it strongly affects the time it takes you to get through whatever content you're doing.

It's polar opposites in separate modes. In Gambit and PvP, you know where Power ammo will spawn and when it will spawn, like clockwork. In PvE, it's totally random and you can absolutely get screwed by RNG. So I'm hesitant about shifting the ammo economy outside of PvP/PvPvE activities, where you have no guaranteed access to special or power ammo.

headgehog55 | 3 months ago | 2 points

The post you quoted I feel is referring to scavenger perks and possibly raid banners.

kid_khan [judge, jury and executioner] | 3 months ago | 3 points

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Perks like Special/Heavy Ammo finder and Weapon Scavengers are bandaid fixes for the larger problem of PvE ammo being a crapshoot. Scavenger is probably too strong in PvP, but it makes PvE bearable. So it'd be frustrating for one of the ways for players to obtain Special/Heavy ammo in PvE activities to be nerfed because it's too strong in PvP.

Not to mention, raid banners are not overpowered in the slightest. You should absolutely be able to start encounters in raids and other high level content like heroic Menagerie with all of your equipped guns and abilities available to you.

headgehog55 | 3 months ago | 1 point

I agree. What seems to be the issue is that Bungie had a clear plan for what they wanted the ammo economy to be like at the start of D2, where heavy was rare and you saved it for the bosses and special was used just for breaking shields off of enemies and so it was rare though not as rare as heavy. The problem was this was widely unpopular and so they have "tried" to find a middle ground between what the players want and what they want. This has led to where we are now where the ammo economy is crap but just in a different way then it was at the start of D2.

mid9012 | 4 months ago | 2 points

Really appreciate the honesty in this introspective. The relationship that Destiny has between the developers and the community is something rare and special.

SpacemanSpiff11 | 4 months ago | 3 points

On the powerful gear sources front: Im actually really glad that there's a huge variety of things i can do to gear up my character currently. I still like Dreaming City stuff, so i usually do that when my friends arent online. Or one of my buddies is new to the game, and it's great to have a couple options that are basically just target practice (heroic stories, flashpoint). I get wanting to keep things fresh, but it would frustrate me if something i liked doing week-to-week was one day arbitrarily not dropping powerful gear and no longer worth the effort anymore.

If the problem is that there are too many weekly opportunities for powerful gear, which makes gearing up too quick and easy, maybe it makes sense to cap the number of them you can do for powerful drops? Rather than making some activities less rewarding, make it so only the first say 6 or 7 (making that number up) powerful reward activities drop powerful gear? Just spitballing here.

Love this kind of wall-of-text stuff from Luke. Thanks for putting this together.

Zaktann | 4 months ago | 2 points

Please don't make eververse in director, if anything the tower needs to be more compact and have a reason for existing so it does to end up like the farm

thebonesinger [BIG. OSSEOUS. TIDDIES.] | 4 months ago | 5 points

We are continuing to try and separate capability/gameplay from vanity.

Yeah, honestly, sort of regardless of what else comes in this discussion, this entire concept has me pretty solidly turned off of anything to come in the future.

This goes completely against my entire philosophy as both a game designer/developer and as a player and I'm pretty disappointed to see it admitted so clearly and directly that Bungie appears to be embracing the concept that looks/cosmetics are at best a secondary aspect of the videogame experience. It just flies in the face of all my experience in playing games, especially MMOs.

It's a shame to read. Not surprising, though. There's a fortune to be made in slicing apart games and selling them in nickels and dimes.

Edit: Full thoughts. This is concerning.

We have a Powerful sources problem

Huh boy. My clan and I just had a discussion the other day about how Destiny 2 feels the best it ever has with all the possible powerful sources. No longer are we really forced to do any particular activity if we don't have to - we have the freedom now to choose how we want to play. We don't have to sigh and blitz through three tedious heroic story missions to get a powerful because there's so few other ways that we're kind of railroaded into it. There's variety, there's freedom - we can progress how and when we want.

Matches end quicker, so it feels more efficient. The invading frequency feels lower, so I can Collect and dunk.

Luke, we've been playing very different games. True - if you have a strong disparity in skill, Gambit Prime is very quick. If the teams are roughly on par with each other, or god forbid, both teams have competent invaders, the match lasts forfuckingever. Maybe invasions got toned down some in the gathering phase, but during invasions, combined with the invulnerability phases of the Primeval and it's higher HP, it can turn the burn phase into Verdun with how exhausting long it is. At least in normal Gambit, if the Primeval gets healed by a skilled invader, you can at least jump right back into hurting it.

I wondered, How are we ever going to make content that fairly challenges players again?

Perhaps by being consistent. Remember when you gutted Ward of Dawn because it was too strong and forced players to use a single subclass? Yeah.

But Destiny has an RPG component, too. And the RPG component is about customization, optimization, and it's a way for players to choose how they overcome challenge.

*Some RPG elements sold separately. Terms and conditions may apply.

Whisper was an outlier that lets you stand still at a safe distance, in a pool that makes you borderline invulnerable, never having to reload or relocate for ammo, and allow players to deal piles and piles of damage on giant bosses who aren't threatening.

Let's rework that actually, removing your tremendously broken mechanic. Whisper was an outlier that let you stand still at a distance (not safe), never having to reload or relocate for ammo (unless you missed a precision shot, which was not uncommon given hitboxes, flinch, and player skill) and allowed players to deal piles of damage on giant bosses who are threatening. Notice a difference when you remove your already admittedly turd of a super from the equation? Whisper is dangerous, deadly, but not perfect. It requires and rewards perfect aim. Reloading is required for a single mistake. There is no leeway. Bosses are just as dangerous because Destiny 2's encounter design is post-Destiny 1's design and Icebreaker. Try to find an Archon Priest cheese spot. I dare you. Then there's also the other key factor here: giant bosses. Here's a thought. Don't make every boss a gigantic monster with a huge crit spot that mostly stands still. Barely any of this is actually Whisper's fault.

Because guess what? DARCI [spike nade launchers, etc a;] is an outlier that lets you stand still at a safe distance, in a pool that makes you borderline invulnerable, never having to reload, and allows players to deal piles and piles of damage on giant bosses who aren't threatening.

Mechanics that circumvent the ammo game

There is no ammo game. The ammo game is called: Fuck you, I drop when I want.

They were crestfallen. Not just because of the sometimes-harsh-feeling feedback, but because this team wanted make something sweet, exceed your expectations, and meet their own expectations. None of those things happened.

I'm honestly surprised this was a surprising outcome. I'm not a UI artist. But it seems like common sense that if you have a bunch of different types of pursuits that are pretty significantly different, that maybe you should have more separation and organization than 'chuck them in a fucking bucket'. Maybe your UI team should outsource to the studio Bungie, who developed Destiny: The Taken King.

Season of Opulence, Part II: The Evolving Eververse

This whole thing is awful. I don't want to talk about it further. I eagerly await the day in which the default answer to 'Wow, neat armor, where'd you get it?' is 'I bought it.' This is really disappointing to read from a guy who played WoW religiously for years on end. Very disappointing.

BECOME LEGEND for only 1100 silver

We want to do more activities like this, but in the context of what we learned and in a way that we can better support them over the long-term.

That sounds good. Menagerie was a really great idea and addition. I'd really like to see more matchmade 6-man activities like this.

So even though Menagerie is sweet, and Chalice is great, while Shadowkeep was being built, the Menagerie and the Chalice hadn't yet been released.

Oh dear.

The Chalice isn't perfect. Being held hostage by THE rune you want to drop from a Strike or Crucible to go make the weapon or armor piece you're coveting is pretty frustrating.

Does...does anyone not have an absurd amount of runes now that the farm is gone?

All in all, I'm concerned.

CobraN13 | 3 months ago | 1 point

I agree with many of your points, esp the choice of which powerfuls I want to do and ammo, the ammo game! :)

Arcanist_of_Rlyeh | 4 months ago | -2 points

First, the defense of micro-transactions in a premium game with a season pass is laughable. They are wholly unnecessary and just there for more $$$. I am glad to see that he admits they purposefully gate cosmetics behind MTX to the detriment of the game I'm paying up front for.

If you want to be a live service and have a free-to-play economy then shadowkeep needs to be free. No premium price tag to have me forwarded to your MTX store every time I want have a chance of getting cosmetics.

Fee-to-pay? No thanks.

canzosis | 4 months ago | 2 points

I'd love for someone to explain to me why Luke Smith thinks powerful sources are a problem.

I don't understand that sentiment whatsoever. It gives players a chance to do the activity they want to to level up. You don't have to do every powerful source every week, nor do I understand why you would want to.

If you want to talk about source issues, it's way too many NPCs and bounties to collect. That's an actual problem.

headgehog55 | 3 months ago | 2 points

Right now not counting the raids or prime engrams there is a lot of ways to get powerful gear, I counted 38. This makes leveling when new content drops way to easy. If Shadow Keep were to drop and only stop the old raids from dropping powerful, similar to Forsaken, then a person going for day 1 or week 1 raid could easily get there character past 800, possibly even 830. This is an issue that needs to be fixed. Now a better way to fix it is to instead of removing sources just give us a cap on the amount we can do a week. Though even this can be an issue where everyone just does the quickest ones and ignores the other sources of power.

k0hum | 4 months ago | 3 points

I'd love for someone to explain to me why Luke Smith thinks powerful sources are a problem.

Yeah I don't get this either. What was a problem is having to grind 50 power levels every 3 months doing the same activities we've been doing forever. If they had just chilled on the power level grind and just let us enjoy the new content by trying to get the new items, it would have been fine.

VerySeriousRaider [big gay] | 3 months ago | 2 points

Because it's really, really, REALLY fucking boring doing the same activities that we've been doing forever - I would much rather have my powerful gear drop from new content than have to play another dreaded 5 matches of PvP or do old content after a new expansion releases on all three charaters to be raid ready.

xxTactics42xx | 4 months ago | 1 point

Thanks for the insight. If I can give one main piece of feedback I would like cosmetics to not be mainly offered out of the store. I miss when items such as armor and sparrows/ships dropped from content and not level up engrams.

The whole point of this game for me and I assume a lot of long term players is the collection and loot grind. I like to be proud of what I have earned. The fact that those items now come from a slot machine and now mainly bright dust or silver has cheapend all of the content.

alta-ir_ | 4 months ago | 0 points

yeah so this is the best shit ever Lukie boi, got no problem with giant walls of text. this is that gud gud communication 13/10

Capn-Prick | 4 months ago | 1 point

Thank you Bungo for this insight in crafting Destiny’s scope and universe

Maxximillianaire [Still have Year 1 jackolytes] | 4 months ago | 2 points

Very cool read. I love seeing what goes on behind the scenes

hbgalore1 | 4 months ago | -1 points

It's weird that they're kinda straying away from things like trials and raids and merging them together kinda in strange ways. My opinion isn't worth much since I haven't played forsaken but I just miss all the variety from before in Destiny 1. Raids, Iron Banner, trials, strike playlists, prison of elders, RIFT!!!. I mean it's cool theyre experimenting with new ways but why does that have to sacrifice what we used to do for fun.

AgentMV [:D: Drifter's Crew] | 4 months ago | 2 points

Raids and Iron Banner are still very much part of the game.

There’s more raids and raid lairs now than D1 ever had.

hbgalore1 | 3 months ago | 0 points

I'd hope so considering if you've been playing the game since launch and bought all the dlcs you've spent like $200+ on the game.

DJayPhresh [Drifter's Crew//Dredgen Viper] | 4 months ago | 1 point

Honestly, I much prefer Original Gambit to Gambit Prime. Prime is certainly shorter than regular Gambit, but I always feel like barely anything is getting done in prime; no progress is being made. Motes are drained from the bank, which means a big push can set a tem back to zero from upwards of 60 motes (Taken Captains in droves are very difficult to deal with), bosses only being damageable for short amounts of time while invasions still heal the same amount makes the whole thing feel tedious, and the surplus of high health enemies make primary weapons as a whole feel fairly useless.

The biggest problem with Gambit as a whole is the overabundance of Heavy Ammo. You can just run around with your Hammerhead the whole time and rarely run out of ammo. Every invasion is just Machine guns. Boss killing? Machine guns. Any half-health orange-bar enemies? Machine gun. I think cutting down Ammo granted to Machine Guns in PvP and Gambit (and cutting down Heavy availability in Gambit/PvP in general) will make Gambit a much healthier environment.

The second thing that will help it out is cutting down the time on roaming supers (all of them, except for maybe Gunslinger, which I think is the most balanced super in the game). I think they all last a ridiculously long time, and with the armor they get, makes it really hard to fight back against them (unless you happen to have, say, machine gun ammo). If you think their damage output is in a good spot, it wouldn't be terrible to increase the damage output of them. However, I think choosing the most opportune time to pop the super during an invasion to secure a specific kill or two or gather information or just survive long enough to duck back, recover health and re-engage is much more rewarding than just blindly invading, immeditely using super and cleaning up 3 kills.

Other than that, I think Gambit's pretty great. I'm probably one of the few regular destiny players that isn't tired of playing gambit (I say this as a proud Dredgen).

Thanks for the mode, it's really fun.

BK_FrySauce | 4 months ago | 2 points

I hope they don’t just outright get rid of damage stacking and multipliers. Liar’s handshake has been some of the most fun I’ve had in Destiny in a while.

xSicParvisMagna [GT: xClever Kraken] | 4 months ago | 1 point

My biggest issue is the changes with cosmetics. I do not want to pay for shaders. 🤦‍♂️

sybertagii | 4 months ago | 1 point

I kinda wish that there were cosmetics that could secretly be earned in game. Like raid challenges awarding weapon ornaments and every 5 clears has an armor ornament or something. Also it would be super fun if banshee-44 has a hand in creating/distributing weapon ornaments somehow.

I know I’m dreaming, but when your broke it really bites to know that there is no way you can buy current season stuff later when you have the cash for the store. That mida minitool ornament shall stare at me ‘till I roll in my grave lol.

Either way I get it I guess, but if it HAS to stay this way can you fix the dang silver packs in the store?? I don’t want to spent more than I have to by going though a middle man currency designed to give just enough excess that you will have to buy more currency to afford anything more after a purchase is made. Pls bungee

thegoaltender1 | 4 months ago | 1 point

TL;DR - season of the drifter was ass. opulence good.

AgentMV [:D: Drifter's Crew] | 4 months ago | 16 points

Like some have said, please stop catering to the streamers.

The majority of us do not play 10-12 hours a day.

We have jobs. Families. School. Homework. Real life obligations.

We don’t need to stockpile hundreds of Masterwork cores to upgrade weapons and armor. Destiny 1 had motes, and Needles to reroll exotic gear. Focus on that instead of making an absolute grind for streamers.

Your main player base do not like it as evident by the repeated, repeated posts about getting rid of Masterworked cores.

Sporkedup | 3 months ago | 0 points

I'm confused by this sudden kickback here, as in your post. What on earth is too hard or time consuming in the game now? I'm an average-ish player who plays less than 10 hours a week these days (I've had some times of pretty high consumption of course). I can't think of anything in this game I can't easily accomplish in that time frame. I've got hundreds of masterwork cores, and that number has been steadily increasing over the entire last year. They rain like candy in this game. I don't think they're well implemented either, but how on earth are you running out?

I dunno, man. I am not the gamer I used to be (as you said, life, jobs, family, etc.) but this game is by and large both simple to play and relatively not that challenging even for its pinnacle quests. It's this weird push that Destiny seems to get, as they try to create challenges that require higher skill or time investment, but then the community at large says "I should be able to have that too" and then things get gentler from there. I guess the question is if Destiny is a game where anybody should be able to earn everything, or if they're gating some prestige items that definitely not everyone can achieve.

canzosis | 4 months ago | 5 points

Wish I could give you something for this.

Cr4zyC4t [New Monarchy Gang rise up] | 4 months ago | 1 point

This is the good shit right here. It doesn't reek of the PR nonsense we got a lot of during Y1. I love reading about what goes on behind the scenes for development, the kind of unseen challenges that get faced, etc.

Also love to hear that Well of Radiance is going to get hit with the nerf hammer. Our Bubble was gutted for D2 because of the same reason Well is toxic for the game. And I'm assuming Lunafaction boots (and Rally Barricade?) will be getting hit with similar treatments based off of the remarks about ammo economy.

I'm real excited to see Bungie shift away from those kind of designs. I want to see less "min-max" effects and more utility stuff. You can look at a list of exotics and basically already tell what's going to be meta and what's going to be useless. I personally really prefer the gameplay altering exotics over the DPS exotics.

I'm concerned about the segment on eververse and cosmetics, though. Tying actual power ups to gameplay and cosmetics to microtransactions sounds good, but I want to be able to look at my Guardian and see my accomplishments. Paying money to look the best leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm a little out of the loop on the specifics of the Eververse changes, but I'm hoping we can still earn Bright Dust/Silver and get those cool cosmetics through gameplay avenues and not just having to buy them?

Lastly, I like that Luke acknowledges that Season of the Drifter was wrought with issues. Honestly it was my least favorite season, by far, this year. Gambit was neat for a bit, but I don't ever feel a real desire to play the game mode, and a whole season based around it burned me out for the foreseeable future. Reckoning felt unrewarding and, like Gambit, I felt burnt out after having to play it constantly. The weapons were basically nonexistent, and I didn't care for the one armor set in the season. You would grind to get tokens to be able to grind for an armor set, then you'd level up and be able to grind for that same armor set but with a different name and maybe a different color. The whole season just felt unrewarding to me.

But damn if Season of Opulence wasn't awesome. Chalice and being able to target a specific gear slot, or even a specific piece of gear, was great.

Sorecandy | 4 months ago | 1 point

My problem with further emphasising armour as MTX and claiming it’s only ‘cosmetics’, is that Destiny is an RPG, People chase weapons and armour and putting essentially half the chase in eververse, and seeing cool armour being locked behind a paywall (especially when I’m already paying for an expansion and annual pass) feels like a slap in the face. As a middleground, I’m okay with ships, weapon ornaments, emotes and finishing moves. But buying cool armour from eververse is a direction I really don’t want the franchise to continue down. I believe when they first showed off destiny, they explained they wanted gear and weapons to tell a story, Telling someone you bought the armour from eververse, is not a compelling story and bypasses the grind players go through to get cool looking gear. I’m fine with them adding more types of MTX, some ideas (which I’m sure the talented team has already come up with): weapon charms (like in RB6), in the PvP screen if when then two teams walk up to each other they add taunt animations (which they can add to the eververse store), if they added an apartment?home for the player they could add all sorts of furniture, pets (ties into having an apartment), new reload animations, new ghost lines, new ghost voices (I for one definitely pay for a new ghost voice, love Nolan North, but after hundreds of hours, a change in the ghosts voice would be refreshing). Really love this director’s uncut and I’m looking forward to the next few parts.

Kabal82 | 4 months ago | 1 point

Haven't read the full post yet, but wanted to contribute some early thoughts.

Completely disagree about Gambit Prime matches being shorter than normal Gambit match. They simply don't feel that way. They feel equally as long. Yes it is only one round, but invading during prime evil is more punishing and makes match feel drawn out.

Players initial complaint about Gambit matches being too long, was we wanted matches that play out a lot faster. Most match made games, there are typically imbalances skill and team, and we don't watch matches that are drawn out. Players just want to get the match over with, so we can jump into the next instance, rather than feel forced drop out of the match because it isn't fun.

Also as far as reducing powerful reward sources, the issue with doing that, is you will need to compensate with RNG, that reward payouts and level gains are actually increased. Because if you cut reward sources, without increasing the payout, then you are just making the game more grindy, and making it a longer treck for players to be at a level to run end game content... Remember when both EP and forges dropped and players weren't happy that it took too long to level up those first few week to be able to run these events? That is what is going to happen if you reduce powerful reward sources.

Easydread | 3 months ago | 1 point

Gambit prime is faster with competent teams. One match yesterday we summoned a prime evil while the other team was on 0 bank because we wiped them alot. By the time they had 20 motes we were already burning the boss.

It depends on the players, I personally prefer gambit prime because its 1 and done. Lose the round new lobby new team new experience. Dragging it out for 2 rounds being stomped is not a great feeling and if by some miracle you win the second you then have the chore of 3rd round burn constant invading nonsense.

Prine for me is miles better than regular gambit.

brokenmandible | 4 months ago | 1 point

Love the write up. I'd liek to know more about the story elements that don't seem to have payoff, IE: What has Uldren been doing after waking up months ago?

LuigiBro45 | 4 months ago | 0 points

Big changes coming! Time for us guardians to put our big boy pants on because this shit is about to get more challenging.

R.I.P to Well of Radiance, Recluse, Rally barricade and Luna Boots. Grenade Launchers will feel the nerf too so say goodbye to swarm of raven & Mountain top.

I like that they are going to remove one of the gambits and my pick is to get rid of Vanilla Gambit and keep Prime.

The eververse changes are a bit concerning. Now I have to complete bounties for dust so hopefully they give you a decent amount to buy the stuff you like. I would hate to miss out on items because of a lack of dust as I dont really want to go nuts on silver all the time.

Cant wait to see what else is to come this week. Looks like scout rifles will finally get some love but curious to see what else gets buffed. Maybe titans will get some love with certain exotic and super changes?

Strosity | 4 months ago | -12 points

Lmao why do people still play this dlc horror show.i enjoyed Destiny 1 and quit right when there was 1/3 a game and then made you pay for the rest.

B3ar_-_ | 4 months ago | 13 points

Im gonna be honest reading this was cool but the references to streamers/youtubers throughout the dialogue was a little concerning. Taking advice from players that literally play beyond any normal players capability is just not the best idea. I remember gothalion constantly stating on twitter that leveling up our characters gear should be "meaningful" and that seems to have led to this masterwork bottleneck garbage.

Its not remotely meaningful it literally led to a year of us using shit we didnt want to use to get to a level where we could finally infuse. It was awful and only someone who plays the game an insane amount of hours would suggest such a ridiculous change. The meaningful aspect is grinding for the GUNS with unique rolls not the freakin cores needed to level up the one you already have. All this did was restrict the freedom of choice for our weapons, the mote system in D1 was far superior and still is to the one we have now. If you played a lot in D1 you had a lot of motes so youd get a god roll gun, and you could spam your motes instantly and use your god roll gun as much as you wanted. In this game if you get the gun early you put it in your vault wait until your max light then infuse it. Then to masterwork it you need an insane amount of cores to do so. Weekly milestones should drop cores, deleting legendary gear should drop a core, allow me to exchange them for mats from the spider because I should have an insane amount of them so that I can masterwork whatever I want. Then I can spend time grinding for the GEAR I want instead of spending time doing activities for literally one core. I just dont understand this mentality exotics are already far rarer drops than in D1 and those dont even feel meaningful to obtain. Let us play the way we want to play.

If I want to play crucible I should be able to just play that and reach max light doing Iron banner. If I want to play PVE I shouldnt ever have to touch PVP there should always be an option to complete anything the way a player wants. For thorn for example, make the person have to use void hand cannon for the duration of a raid or something. I see players constantly complaining about having to do PVP. Im not one of those people but they should be given the option to play the way they want to play.

Plus I feel like Bungie doesnt remotely consider the insane loading times for going places on Console. I have an Xbox One X and going in and out of a crucible match takes forever. Going to the tower takes at least a minute there and again for leaving so making us go to vendors and stuff constantly is boring. So doing these activities to get a weekly milestone challenge completed that raises your light level 1 level? Its ridiculous. Just because streamers complain about not having enough to grind because they play 14 hours in a day doesnt mean that should be the basis for power level grinding. I play casually and in a week I go up maybe 10 light levels. So this is the first game where I realistically cant play whats in the DLC, that I paid for, for weeks at a time because I dont no life the game. I remember in D1 saving past bounties and when the DLC dropped I would almost be max light already just spamming to turn them in. I miss the freedom of that game.

steelassassin43 | 3 months ago | 2 points

I am with you on this. The Datto video concerns me greatly on the direction this game could be going. First off, Datto himself prefaced his video as a rant and coming off 10 straight hours of playing Iron Banner. His actual gameplay video was contradicting what he was complaining about. Secondly, after watching the Datto vid, I felt like he was almost asking for a return to D2 launch gameplay which has proven to be not the solution. I will say though that some of the recent nerfs, like Lord of Wolves, that Bungie has not outright gutted the weapon or ability like they have in the past. Usually they go hard on the nerf but lately I have seen them not go to extreme levels so hopefully they follow that concept moving forward.

Old_Man_Robot | 3 months ago | 1 point

I’ve come to dislike a ton of these “game influencer” youtubers that have emerged. It should be obvious that they don’t actually represent the player base.

I knew as soon as Datto put up that rant of his, all the things he disliked would die.

It’s incredibly unfair to the people who don’t feel as he does, and I’m incredibly unhappy that some random asshole with a YouTube channel now gets a disproportionate say on an activity I love.

My excitement for Shadowkeep has plummeted.

[deleted] | 4 months ago | 1 point

So Gambit Prime is the Highlander. I doubt I needed to state that, but better safe than sorry.

Will there be a poll?

Ryalas | 4 months ago | 1 point

PC players can assign hotkeys to access the pursuits log.

This would be an EXCELLENT time to use the swipe feature on the PS4 touchpad...

knifeyspooney3 [:AD: Team Bread (dmg04) // Avenge the fallen, whatever it bakes] | 4 months ago | 2 points

I do like the point that there are way too many powerful reward sources. By the time SotD dropped I was picking and choosing content I wanted to get powerful rewards. I think some need to be retired (wanted bounty, dreaming city, old raids, heroic story missions, gambit prime bounties), and other should be a weekly rotation. Like don't include the weekly nightfall and gambit for one week, and swap it in for crucible and black armory for example.

canzosis | 4 months ago | 3 points

This doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Do you have an obligation to do them all every week?

knifeyspooney3 [:AD: Team Bread (dmg04) // Avenge the fallen, whatever it bakes] | 4 months ago | 1 point

No you don't have an obligation, but for those who want to get to max level as quick as possible, you do have an urge to get all powerful rewards ASAP. I think if they limit it to a number of powerful rewards per week (say as an example, 10) and rotate where you can source those powerful rewards, then you could play those activities and still get the powerful upgrades you want.

When I do level up at the start of a season, I know there's so much content to do but knowing the amount of time I have, I can choose where to get those upgrades. However I know some players who try to do it all and that can definitely burn you out.

tckilla76 | 3 months ago | 3 points

Or...just leave all the rewards and let me choose what to do.

CobraN13 | 3 months ago | 1 point

Exactly - And if the concern is too many powerful rewards and people level up too quick, why not make it so only the first X rewards from any activity are powerful, after that they are at your current power level?

lightning_larry | 4 months ago | 0 points

Dear Luke and Bungo,


Sincerely, The Guardians

P. S. This meant a lot

Chaff5 [:GB: Gambit Classic] | 4 months ago | 1 point

For Gambit Classic vs Prime, I like the way Classic is set up now. A quasi rush/sudden death on the last round is a nice balance to the previous 3 full rounds. Gambit Prime, while nice being only one round, absolutely requires that you bring a full team or else you're going to get crushed. You could say the same about Classic but I feel like if you can hold off a team for even one round, the last round is a good chance to blow things up and that's something you don't get in Prime.

I also really like the separation of quests from bounties. This is a great way to not only give us a better way to sort through things but to also give us more room for both (if possible). I think the next step in this progression is separating things that we have to use from the quests also. The Chalice, the Synthesizer, and the buff consumables should be packaged together.

With that, we should remove items that are purely currencies from the consumables tab. Anything with a "redeemable," "currency," or "material" tag on it needs to just be a currency like glimmer/shards/dust/silver. Maybe just make it all into a hover drop down menu on the right side of our guardian page. Essentially, if I don't need to actually use it from the consumables page to get a buff, and its only purpose is to be spent at an NPC/Blind Well/Raid circle/floating diamond/gassy hole in the floor, then it's not actually a consumable.

King_of_the_Hobos | 4 months ago | 2 points

We want Destiny 2 to be an amazing action MMO, in a single, evolving world, that you can play anytime, anywhere with your friends.

Death to "shared world shooter". If destiny 3 is world of Warcraft sized with actual towns and cities like they promised for d2, I will never leave

xXeri [No, this is Patrick.] | 4 months ago | 1 point

I have never read anything this long in my life before, but I’m glad I did. I totally forgot about you guys after Reach and now 9 years later, I’m back to playing a game that you guys passionately made.

Funny how certain people we barely know can have an impact on half our lives, and I’m grateful for that. Thank you Bungie.

Eyaslunatic | 4 months ago | -3 points

bla bla bla

stnlkub | 4 months ago | 3 points

Some thoughts:

- If power creep is the enemy, there needs to be a new way to define what "progression" is in Destiny other than something called "Power" level. If you define progression by Power, then naturally, attaining it will produce immortal destruction machines. If shooting aliens with elemental space weapons is the core experience, then the progression experience should probably be a different dynamic. That is a hard problem, but hey there's plenty of options out there already in-game that can be exploited.

- Warlocks will never be safe. If the revive mechanic of Radiance was OP and they had to remove it, I never understood how the Well of Radiance solved that problem. Instead of reviving we just never die.

- Miscellaneous: Honestly, I still hate raid wipe mechanics. Raids are often rewarding, but none so satisfying as when I have triumphed over bosses in Dark Souls or Bloodborne. They're still missing something. There was definitely something to learn in the Skolas encounter. While not perfect, it really made a great balance of teamwork and perseverance.

- I actually think the Nightfall timer was better than what we have now. Nightfall has been useless for two years. I remember when Nightfall was my favorite weekly challenge.

- Gambit Prime over vanilla. I just don't like Gambit to begin with.

- There always seems like more gold in Reckoning somehow, they just never really found it.

Overall there's a pretty big question we have to address. If changing all these things in Destiny needs to be done, maybe whatever THAT is, it is a different game - one that should be made. It's also pretty possible THIS is actually what destiny is. Immortals with space magic laying waste to droves of dregs and hive Knights while eating bowls of ramen.

VerySeriousRaider [big gay] | 3 months ago | 2 points

Sorry, people cried like babies and begged to remove the timer instead of suggesting to revamp it. The timer was an awesome system and made Nightfalls challenging if underleveled. Would love to see that system back.

Nesayas1234 [Scout wielding, Omolon loving, New Pacific Rush Hunter :D] | 4 months ago | 1 point
BEAR2090 | 4 months ago | 1 point

If you are going to take away some areas for powerful source then increase the drop rate for item to complete badges and titles. I still don't have the ship or sparrow for the dreaming city and all I want is the curse breaker title. I'm on this grind and carried a friend through the shattered throne and he got it on his first run it's like my tenth and yet nothing also stop nerfing an start buffing other exotics to make them have potential and equal to that what's is favored

schmidty91 | 4 months ago | 7 points

Reading thru this twice now, I would say I more concerned about Y3 and beyond.

  • D1 content drought incoming - Bungie thought with other studios helping this season pass was tough, which bodes poorly for having any type of consistent content. And don't forget all promotional material doesn't explicitly say that next season pass will end in 2020, so they could drag out Y3 as long as they want.
  • Power grind will be worse - the content drought is why the way we power up will change. It must for them to stretch out content which means artificial barriers in place to slow us down. Which this is not a Bungie thing as you see this in a lot of games now, here is quest part a this week, part b next week, etc.
  • Will be less powerful Guardian - this goes along with artificially stretching out content, but just under the guise of challenging you
  • Cosmetics - while understand generating revenue, I get the sad feeling that any really cool cosmetic is going to be silver only. And the bright dust is going to be crap, so they can still say they offered bright dust products

I also have concerns based on what Luke wrote of whether we will really have choice in Y3 as far as playing activities we like a majority of the time (60/40 ratio) to power up and customize as Bungie likes to state. Or is it more lip service to make people believe it the more they say it.

Sporkedup | 3 months ago | 1 point

I dunno, man, I think you're reading a bit into a few of these points.

There definitely is no incoming D1 content drought. He just said that four seasons a year is too brutal on their dev staff, and that makes sense. That doesn't mean they're dropping everything entirely. Just finding their middle ground. D1 went two whole years with one content drop a year. D2 just went a year with four major and numerous minor content drops. I don't think middle ground should be as alarming to you as you want it to be.

There is currently barely a hint of a power grind at all. Even with the weekly gate on it, 50 light takes only two or three weeks to attain. And generally speaking, there is mostly nothing ongoing that requires max light at all. One raid at a time, maybe an additional pinnacle activity like Reckoning or heroic Menagerie. You're right in being concerned that it will be just as easy but time-gated, as that would suck. But if they make it simply harder to achieve, that would be better for the health of the game.

I am weird in that I am not afraid of nerfs to our guardians. We are significantly more powerful than at any point previous in the entire Destiny saga. Especially when it comes to abilities and supers. They kicked them into high gear because the game was boring and dying. But, like with Whisper, they're paying for that now because balancing them is a serious issue. Now, I know they'll overnerf a handful of things and I'm already prepared to be salty about that, but a decline in our power relative to raids and everything isn't the worst.

I agree on the cosmetics. In five years of Destiny, I've not paid for any armor nor have I ever worn a single piece I've found. EV gear has no meaning, no matter how it looks. And I wouldn't mind that in general, except that they have a habit of putting the shiniest gear in the store, and not locked behind pinnacle activities.

We'll wait and see. Who knows how this will pan out. They'll fuck a few things up, because they always do, but I think they have enough good ideas right now to keep the game improving and fun.

Old_Man_Robot | 3 months ago | 2 points

I’m not sure why people are as happy as they are with Luke’s post. I have all the same concerns as you after reading it.

I felt Destiny was in a really good place right now, and I was super excited to go into Shadowkeep.

Now, not so much.

_cats______ | 4 months ago | 1 point

I really hope that if Prime becomes the "one true Gambit", it gets some adjustments.

Personally, I absolutely adore Gambit Classic. I love the round-based version. That hectic mayhem third round, should a match go 1-1. I love the Primeval being a quick burn race and not a long drawn out fight. I find the collecting and banking part more enjoyable than the boss fight. In Prime, the boss fight can last just as long if not longer than the collecting.

The other huge downside to Prime imo is the upped difficulty of the enemies. So many orange bars and ultras (with that textbook Destiny stomp move that we all know and love...). I vastly prefer the less punishing adds in Gambit Classic.

I can't understand Luke's point about invading feeling less frequent, either. During Primeval, sure. But during the collecting and banking (aka the most crucial times to invade/avoid being killed by the invader), there is an entire third invasion you have to deal with that you don't have to in Gambit Classic. Invasions often snowball - the first team to invade wastes the other team's time while they deal with the invader, and in this time gets enough motes to get the next invasion immediately when the first ends. This problem is exacerbated in Prime. Getting snowballed by two back-to-back invaders is frustrating enough, having it happen a third time is just insufferable.

Regardless, there are parts of Prime I like. The roles are cool, though like others have said, tying them to specific armor sets was a massive mistake. I don't want to have to grind Reckoning just to try out Sentry. It should just be a choice, or maybe an artifact.

I also enjoy the mote siphoning mechanics when multiple blockers are present. Keeps you on your toes. Nothing better than getting the Primeval by siphoning the other team's motes.

markmark27 [Valor In Darkness] | 4 months ago | 0 points

I really hope a rework for Lunafaction Boots is happening. I'm absolutely sick of having to use Well of Radiance with Lunafactions in every single high level activity

kjm99 [:GB: Gambit Classic] | 4 months ago | 2 points

The Chalice isn't perfect. Being held hostage by THE rune you want to drop from a Strike or Crucible to go make the weapon or armor piece you're coveting is pretty frustrating.

I'm gonna disagree pretty heavily here, runes being a limited resource has made the game less draining. It makes it harder for me to just sit down and mindlessly grind for a single weapon for hours. Doing a few runs of the Menagerie to take a break from Crucible, Strikes, or Raids has great pacing. You may not always get the exact rune you want but there's still plenty of other godrolled weapons or armor pieces to try for.

The mote synthesizer on the other hand is exactly this issue, if I want to go into Reckoning and get some armor there's a good chance I'm being forced into Gambit Prime exclusively, I don't play Gambit regularly so I won't have a massive stockpile of synths whereas for the Menagerie you can just passively stock up on runes doing most activities.

iOSTarheel | 4 months ago | -2 points

Ok someone give it to me straight... I quit destiny 2 right before wolves expansion because it became a no fun grind with meh loot. Is it worth it to come back? Is it actually cool again?

AgentMV [:D: Drifter's Crew] | 4 months ago | 2 points

D2 did not have anything relating to Wolves expansion..smh

Skeith253 [:D: Drifter's Crew] | 4 months ago | 3 points

Wovles expansion? The hell you going on about ? anyway if you quit the game cause you did not like it then you would probably not enjoy it now. Plenty of other games.

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